Taser - A must for CHLers

[chiefglocker]

I think all of us who have CHL much carry this so that we never have to pull our firearms.
If the assailant could not be contained with this then the use of lethal force would be
justified easily. It gives you a legal edage along with self protection.

We human by nature are not made to take life we are physiologically as well as psychologically programmed to save life. And this is the reason why we have higher moral values instilled in us
like compassion,love and sacrifies by default. That is why we are called law abiding armed citizens.

My mother's uncle was in the WWII. Somewhere in Germany he was clearing out a Nazi building after
the air raid. Suddenly he met with a young Nazi office ( maybe 23 years old) as soon as he went around the corner of the building. For a second both of them looked at each other then the Nazi officer went for his side arm but he already had his rifle in the firing position. By reflex he pull the trigger blowing a part of that young Nazi officer. He was commended on that but deep inside he was not comfortable. Even years after the incident he used to feel some sort of discomfort when he used to narrate the horror of wars. Even a soldier has such feeling of regret when they kill the enemy face to face. Because a soldier is also human being first. He is not desinged by Natur to take life.





I think it is a good idea if all the CHL instructor talk about the less lethal device in their class. I know they all give a good information about legal aspect of the shooting in self defence. But this would be
an added value from economical, mental and legal point of view.

 

[txinvestigator]

I think all of us who have CHL much carry this so that we never have to pull our firearms.
If the assailant could not be contained with this then the use of lethal force would be
justified easily. It gives you a legal edage along with self protection.


I think it is a good idea if all the CHL instructor talk about the less lethal device in their class. I know they all give a good information about legal aspect of the shooting in self defence. But this would be
an added value from economical, mental and legal point of view.

Say what? A guy threatens you with a deadly object (gun, knife, club, whatever) and you suggest leaving your firearm holstered and pulling a TASER? Bad idea.

Seek out use of force training. Your concepts are not accurate.

 

[chiefglocker]

TXI you have a better experince and the street knowledge about the attacks by a bad guy because you had been a cop.
I do not have any such encounters in my life yet. So my experience is zero. But when I did my Citizen's Police course
a cop gave us a talk about the use of deadly force. He had to shoot a guy and kill him because he pulled a gun on him.
But later he found out that apparently bad guy was carrying a toy gun and he wanted to commit a suicide by cop.

That cop did what his duty called for yet he had some " I wish I had not " kind of feeling about the incident.
I have not seen any cops or any civilians who rejoice at the use of deadly force that ends up in killing someone.

So what I think again out of my immature experience is this. If a bad guy comes with a gun then fight with a gun. But if somebody comes with a knief or the club just taser him.
Like some one had posted a video a couple of weeks back, a black guy high on drug pounds on a blue PT cruiser at the traffic light. What do you suggest under such circumtances,
use the less lethal weapon and contain the perpetrator till the cops arrive or use the deadly force and finish the game?

 

[San Antone RR]

And while you are trying to shock him he sticks that knife in your throat or knocks that Taser out of your hand with a club and then proceeds to do evil to you and your family because you wanted to be free from the "I wish I had not" feeling?

No thanks. You keep the Taser. I will stick with 230Gr...

 

[matefrio]

The cop and your mother's uncle used the tools they deemed best for the situation at hand to stop the action of the person trying to kill them. Death was the outcome not their intent so it's natural to feel guilty.

The goal is not to kill. Death is an unfortunate outcome of events that they had little control over but had responded to justly. I read that 80% of people shot by a handgun survive.

Being attacked with a club or knife is a good reason to stop someone's actions. What tool you use to stop their actions can include deadly force but it's your choice. EDIT:: You'd better practice with what ever choice you make so you know the limitations.

 

[txinvestigator]

So what I think again out of my immature experience is this. If a bad guy comes with a gun then fight with a gun. But if somebody comes with a knief or the club just taser him.

No.

Like some one had posted a video a couple of weeks back, a black guy high on drug pounds on a blue PT cruiser at the traffic light. What do you suggest under such circumtances,

I have not seen the video

use the less lethal weapon and contain the perpetrator till the cops arrive or use the deadly force and finish the game?

Is deadly force justified under the law?

 

[chiefglocker]

No.
I have not seen the video
Is deadly force justified under the law?

Here is the video.


I would not use the lethal force under this circumtanes. So the taser comes very handy.

My question to you was

What do you suggest under such circumtances,
use the less lethal weapon and contain the perpetrator till the cops arrive or use the deadly force and finish the game?

 

[bwdilli]

Sorry I'll have to disagree with you. I don't even think cops should be carrying them.

 

[jake75]

As soon as he hit my drivers side window with me or my children in the car that guy would be DONE.

 

[chiefglocker]

Sorry I'll have to disagree with you. I don't even think cops should be carrying them.

Let us ask Texascop2. He would be the right person to answer.

 

[majormadmax]

As soon as he hit my drivers side window with me or my children in the car that guy would be DONE.

Ditto, they would be hauling his dead carcass away under a blanket had I been in that car!

chiefglocker, if you honestly think a taser would subdue a high crackhead like that, you are gonna be in for a rude awakening if you ever find yourself up against one!

About the only thing I agree with is your claim of "immature experience"...

 

[Texas42]

I'm having some experience working with many patients at the VA who are suffering severe psychiatric problems. Yes, killing someone isn't what I'd call "good for the soul" so to speak. If it comes easy, you've probably got some severe problems.

I'm not a self defense guru. I think if you threaten deadly force against someone I love, I'm going to try to the best of my abilities to stop you. People must stop when they lose enough blood so that their circulatory system cannot compensate and you pass out or when their nerves cannot get impulses to the muscles. There is a good chance your going to kill someone when that happens. I've decided I'm ok with that.

That being said, if you decided that you could not kill someone, you shouldn't carry a gun.

 

[jake75]

That being said, if you decided that you could not kill someone, you shouldn't carry a gun.

Exactly. Well said, Texas42

 

[Seabear1500]

As soon as he hit my drivers side window with me or my children in the car that guy would be DONE.

I'll have to agree that my first instinct would be to STOP any further advance. Looking at the video, I am not sure why the driver didn't make use of the car, I bet the driver was terrified not to mention suprised and confused. Like we always say Fight, freeze , or flee. The driver was deffinately on the flee wagon.

 

[Charley]

Appropriate use of deadly force is both a legal and a moral issue. There might be occasions where it is legal, but perhaps not moral, and other times the reverse. Look and learn when it is legal, and look and learn how to make your own decison as to when it is moral.

As for the video, even a small car is a 2000 pound bludgeon. Honk the horn once as a warning, then drive away. If you have to go over the attacker while doing so, it was his choice to attack you, not yours.

You do what is neccesary to let you and those you are protecting survive.

I can live with that.

 

[Clockwork]

I am not sure why the driver didn't make use of the car, I bet the driver was terrified not to mention suprised and confused. Like we always say Fight, freeze , or flee. The driver was deffinately on the flee wagon.

A person can learn a great deal about the human condition from the game of poker. I was reading a book by noted poker champion Phil Hellmuth. The book was about poker, sure, but a good 70% of poker is being able to read people and only %30 about the cards themselves. The specifics of the book were about human beings "non verbal" communication and how it is supposed to be the most honest of all of our forms of communication because human beings are hard-wired in their DNA with a "flight or fight" response when thrust into an applicable situation and it has helped serve humans over the years as we were hunters and gatherers and there were other, LARGER predators stalking the forests and plains. The initial shock of the situation may freeze somebody but then their fight or flight response should kick in.

 

[West Texas]

A person can learn a great deal about the human condition from the game of poker. I was reading a book by noted poker champion Phil Hellmuth. The book was about poker, sure, but a good 70% of poker is being able to read people and only %30 about the cards themselves. The specifics of the book were about human beings "non verbal" communication and how it is supposed to be the most honest of all of our forms of communication because human beings are hard-wired in their DNA with a "flight or fight" response when thrust into an applicable situation and it has helped serve humans over the years as we were hunters and gatherers and there were other, LARGER predators stalking the forests and plains. The initial shock of the situation may freeze somebody but then their fight or flight response should kick in.

Good points. Knowing how to read the situation and act accordingly should be as big a part of your on-going training as shooting your weapon! I don't like the "what if" and "role-playing" games, but they are good training!

Clockwork, You are the one o,f if not the ONLY "left wing Liberal" that I've ever seen that thinks like a conservative, at least on occassion!

 

[Texan2]

Let us ask Texascop2. He would be the right person to answer.

My department carries Tasers. They are a wonderful tool to have in your "toolbox". It is statistically proven that they reduce officer and civilian injuries. They are in no way, shape or form a replacement for a firearm.

bwdilli,
Why dont you think that cops should carry Tasers? In their abscence an officer or suspect may be seriously injured. Injuries that could have been avoided by Tasing them. I suppose another option would be to go hands on with a metal baton and break some bones....but that seems to be more damaging to the suspect and more dangerous to the officer.
IMO people who are anti-Taser (for LEOs) are not well versed on its capabilities, limits and purpose.

 

[chiefglocker]

My department carries Tasers. They are a wonderful tool to have in your "toolbox". It is statistically proven that they reduce officer and civilian injuries. They are in no way, shape or form a replacement for a firearm.

bwdilli,
Why dont you think that cops should carry Tasers? In their abscence an officer or suspect may be seriously injured. Injuries that could have been avoided by Tasing them. I suppose another option would be to go hands on with a metal baton and break some bones....but that seems to be more damaging to the suspect and more dangerous to the officer.
IMO people who are anti-Taser (for LEOs) are not well versed on its capabilities, limits and purpose.

Texascop2 thanks for the confirmation. There is a good reason that is why cops carry it and use it. As an armed citizen why not to copy it from the cop ?

 

[West Texas]

Texascop2 thanks for the confirmation. There is a good reason that is why cops carry it and use it. As an armed citizen why not to copy it from the cop ?

Carry a tazer along with, or in place of, a CCG? Or carry a stungun as pictured above along with or in place of your CCG?