Is America Heading Towards Another Civil War?

[benenglish]

The IRS has notified more than 400,000 taxpayers that their passports are at risk since the program began.

It has been the case that travel outside the country could be restricted for people who owe back taxes for at least the last 40 years. Decades ago, the process required an Officer to certify the debt at the place you were expected to leave the country. The various authorities would then, supposedly, spread your name around to all points of entry so that you would be confined to the U.S.

In practice, if an Officer certified you as ineligible to travel at a Houston airport, you just flew to Miami and left from there. The system was full of holes and your "ineligible to leave the U.S." status never got communicated outside the office where it was established. The system was totally broken.

If the system has been automated and hooked into the State Dept so that passports are revoked, that would be efficient and reasonable.

In practice and based on your description, though, I suspect that actual revocation will be rare. The IRS is nowhere near as aggressive about collecting taxes as it once was. They are light years away from where they used to be.

 

[SURVIVOR619]

I’m glad I had bourbon for breakfast.

4 Roses, Single Barrel?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

It has been the case that travel outside the country could be restricted for people who owe back taxes for at least the last 40 years. Decades ago, the process required an Officer to certify the debt at the place you were expected to leave the country. The various authorities would then, supposedly, spread your name around to all points of entry so that you would be confined to the U.S.

In practice, if an Officer certified you as ineligible to travel at a Houston airport, you just flew to Miami and left from there. The system was full of holes and your "ineligible to leave the U.S." status never got communicated outside the office where it was established. The system was totally broken.

If the system has been automated and hooked into the State Dept so that passports are revoked, that would be efficient and reasonable.

In practice and based on your description, though, I suspect that actual revocation will be rare. The IRS is nowhere near as aggressive about collecting taxes as it once was. They are light years away from where they used to be.

Well, you retired, and look what happened...

Replaced "you" with "and".

 

[AustinN4]

The IRS is nowhere near as aggressive about collecting taxes as it once was. They are light years away from where they used to be.

And perhaps not up to where they should be?

 

[benenglish]

And perhaps not up to where they should be?

In my biased opinion, yes.

In the 1960s and prior, the IRS earned a reputation for being bastards. They absolutely deserved that reputation. Some of the shit they pulled in the 1960s and 1950s was horrific. Stoning would have been an appropriate punishment for some Officers.

In the 1970s, Richard Nixon egregiously misused the agency. As a result, very serious Congressional oversight was put into place. Of course there are exceptions (Y'all feel free to keep your family horror stories to yourselves. 98% of those stories are BS that stinks so bad I can smell it over the 'net.) but, generally, from 1975 to 2000, the agency was run reasonably well and did a decent job while respecting taxpayer rights. They maintained (by far) the best data security of any large civilian agency and developed a number of best practices in diverse fields, practices that were copied far and wide.

None of that helped them overcome their bad reputation because part of that Congressional oversight was an absolute prohibition against the IRS publicly sticking up for itself and discussing its actions. It was a felony to do so. Every time you've ever heard a horror story about the IRS, remember that you're only hearing one side.

Beginning in 1999 and really ramping up in the early 2000s, the agency got used as a political football, corrupted by politically-motivated executive hiring practices, neutered by petty empire-building, and repeatedly starved of resources.

Today, the agency is a shadow of its former self. Budget cuts have left it incapable of carrying out its mission. Huge swaths of the law that are supposed to be enforced by the IRS are simply ignored; they don't have the staff or resources to do the job.

If someone really wanted to kill the IRS and institute a flat tax or VAT or some other scheme, they've done a great job of laying the groundwork.

So, yeah. They're definitely "not up where they should be."

IMO, of course.

 

[IXLR8]

One thing for sure, a civil war will have a whole lot existing bronze statues replaced with new ones. Statues that rewrite history to suit powers that be.

 

[deemus]

It has been the case that travel outside the country could be restricted for people who owe back taxes for at least the last 40 years. Decades ago, the process required an Officer to certify the debt at the place you were expected to leave the country. The various authorities would then, supposedly, spread your name around to all points of entry so that you would be confined to the U.S.

In practice, if an Officer certified you as ineligible to travel at a Houston airport, you just flew to Miami and left from there. The system was full of holes and your "ineligible to leave the U.S." status never got communicated outside the office where it was established. The system was totally broken.

If the system has been automated and hooked into the State Dept so that passports are revoked, that would be efficient and reasonable.

In practice and based on your description, though, I suspect that actual revocation will be rare. The IRS is nowhere near as aggressive about collecting taxes as it once was. They are light years away from where they used to be.

I know a guy that was not issued a passport due to 5 years of delinquent returns. He had already bought a European vacation, so he had to get the old returns prepped ASAP. He had them prepped and then filed in person with the IRS so he could get the passport issued.

Had not heard a person would be banned from foreign travel if he owed though. Interesting.

 

[benenglish]

Had not heard a person would be banned from foreign travel if he owed though.

In my experience, banning a person from foreign travel due to delinquent taxes has always been such a rare occurrence it could be considered statistically non-existent. The procedures existed but no one (well, I know of a couple of cases) ever used them. Think about it. If a person can afford to be jetting off to a foreign vacation, it's highly likely that an Officer trying to collect money from that person could locate assets inside the U.S. to seize. In practical terms, the need to restrict someone's travel didn't exist.

However, the system referred to by popper is new to me. If the system is becoming automated and routine, it could be a very effective collection tool long before a case ever has to be assigned to a field Officer. I think that's not just efficient but kinda cool.

 

[Bithabus]

Friend of mine owes the IRS, got a letter stating that his passport is revoked.

 

[deemus]

In my experience, banning a person from foreign travel due to delinquent taxes has always been such a rare occurrence it could be considered statistically non-existent. The procedures existed but no one (well, I know of a couple of cases) ever used them. Think about it. If a person can afford to be jetting off to a foreign vacation, it's highly likely that an Officer trying to collect money from that person could locate assets inside the U.S. to seize. In practical terms, the need to restrict someone's travel didn't exist.

However, the system referred to by popper is new to me. If the system is becoming automated and routine, it could be a very effective collection tool long before a case ever has to be assigned to a field Officer. I think that's not just efficient but kinda cool.

The interesting thing in his situation was that he didn't technically owe an tax money. But he was the officer responsible for filing on two partnerships. Sounds like it must be an automated thing. He didn't have any outstanding taxes owed, which is the weird part.

 

[easy rider]

So does mean people wanting a passport and can't get one will be starting a war?

 

[AustinN4]

So does mean people wanting a passport and can't get one will be starting a war?

No, they will be starting a whine. F'm until they pay their taxes!

 

[easy rider]

Who here recognizes themselves?

Not sure at my age I would want to join a militia, but it looks like a good time.

 

[AustinN4]

Who here recognizes themselves?

Old guys hav'in fun.

 

[Southpaw]

So does mean people wanting a passport and can't get one will be starting a war?

Did we take a wrong turn at
Albuquerque?

 

[TxStetson]

Who here recognizes themselves?

Not sure at my age I would want to join a militia, but it looks like a good time.

I don’t think i like how you asked that question.

 

[easy rider]

I don’t think i like how you asked that question.

Didn't mean it as a bad thing.

 

[easy rider]

Did we take a wrong turn at
Albuquerque?

I think I wrote and posted that one a bit fast.

 

[Mohawk600]

There will be a breaking point. The left will demand and exact laws infringing the rights of the people. Some people will resist. We will see an action against the govt. and new laws.........when?????? TBD

 

[BillFairbanks]

Meanwhile in China

They use giant electric forks

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world...inese-forces-18947059?bustcache=1565964839768




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