Oh this is good. Dallas PD cop kills man

[jordanmills]

It is extremely unusual for maintenance to enter unannounced. It would only be in an emergency. Tests and inspections are always announced several days ahead.

Faulty circuit or water/plumbing leak are relatively common reasons for unscheduled entry. Definitely not often, but more common than others.

But it looks like they had given advance notice of entry.

 

[BillFairbanks]

Depends what kind of ice cream we're talking about.

Of course


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[ZX9RCAM]

It is extremely unusual for maintenance to enter unannounced. It would only be in an emergency. Tests and inspections are always announced several days ahead.

The moisture tests were announced about a week prior.

ETA:Ninja'd.

 

[Bithabus]

They had announced they’d be entering apartments for moisture tests. That’s why she sent her dog to her mother’s. She knew maintenance would be entering her apartment.

Now, she says the apartment was dark, which helps explain her fear. However, I would like to know how she knows he wasn’t trying to show his hands.

I’m glad I’m not on that jury. It seems like it’d be a very tough decision.

Have you ever lived in an apartment? Maintenance give you a window for inspections like that and they never show up late at night.

 

[jordanmills]

Have you ever lived in an apartment? Maintenance give you a window for inspections like that and they never show up late at night.

Unless something happens like the person below you reports water leaking from their ceiling.

 

[Bithabus]

Unless something happens like the person below you reports water leaking from their ceiling.

Right, like I said they only do that in emergencies. Very rare. And these apartments were brand new.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Is it normal to enter ones apartment, knowing that someone is inside, and being terrified of that fact?

 

[innominate]

Is it normal to enter ones apartment, knowing that someone is inside, and being terrified of that fact?

Why not stay in the hallway and call it in if you're terrified? Confront if/ when they exit?

 

[deemus]

However, if you find a stranger on your couch eating ice cream, would most reasonable people immediately shoot them, or try to find out more information on what’s going on?



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I think it depends on the person. Single girl, no family with a key around, there would be no reason for someone to be in her apartment that late.

Or like a situation I had.
Walked into my den around 1am after cleaning out my garage for several hours, and after 6-8 beers over the day. I was sweating like a pig and stunk like dirt and beer, as I stood in front of my den couch, in overalls, no shirt, pants legs tucked into my boots, with a bat in my hand that I had brought in to wash mud off of. I was a drunk hillbilly looking mofo.

You can imagine my surprise to see a black man sitting on my couch, alone. "Why are you in my house, sitting on my couch?"

"Ummm, uhhhh, errrrr, I'm with daughter one!"

Daughter one from upstairs, "leave him alone dad, we just got home from our date."

Having several kids, most of which had black friends, I made the conscience decision to not bash his head in with the bat, that I just happened to have in my hand.

I inquired, knowing that while he likely was in fact invited into my house, the terrified look on his face did not allow me to pass up the opportunity to scare the shit out a guy who most likely was there to see one of my daughters.

Crisis averted. The likelihood of a person I didn't know being in my house with no ill intent was very high. And while as a dad, I relished moments to scare guys my daughters brought home, I always made sure I knew who they were, often with a demand to see a drivers license.

 

[BillFairbanks]

Why not stay in the hallway and call it in if you're terrified? Confront if/ when they exit?

I think at least one officer testified that he would’ve backed out and called for backup.


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[toddnjoyce]

Having a hard time switching between role as cop where you deal with this (strangers in dark places that you may or may not know about) and then, after shift suddenly being terrified...

I get the ‘it’s my home’ argument, but that’s what I expect from a civilian...I hold LE to a higher expectation, even when not on duty...as a military member, I was considered always on duty; it’s just a matter of whether or not I was at the workplace or not.

 

[Renegade]

Q: Why did you shoot?
A: I was afraid he was going to kill me.

Here we go again. Fear is not a justification for the use of deadly force. It does not matter if you are afraid or brave. The Penal Code is quite clear on what justifies the use of deadly force. Emotional ( I was terrified, I was afraid, etc) such as this might work with jury, but she just admitted she did not shoot him based on legally justifiable reasons.

 

[Bithabus]

Q: Why did you shoot?
A: I was afraid he was going to kill me.

Here we go again. Fear is not a justification for the use of deadly force. It does not matter if you are afraid or brave. The Penal Code is quite clear on what justifies the use of deadly force. Emotional ( I was terrified, I was afraid, etc) such as this might work with jury, but she just admitted she did not shoot him based on legally justifiable reasons.

"he was going to [unlawfully] kill me" is a justification. Whether her belief that he was going to kill her was reasonable is now up for the jury to decide.

 

[Renegade]

"he was going to [unlawfully] kill me" is a justification. Whether her belief that he was going to kill her was reasonable is now up for the jury to decide.

“I was afraid he was going to kill me”. Much different. Her entire testimony is pretty much fear based.

she has to say that because the legally justifiable reason “immediately necessary” she took off the table when she admitted she had many other options she could have chosen but did not.

 

[El Spicoli]

However, if you find a stranger on your couch eating ice cream, would most reasonable people immediately shoot them, or try to find out more information on what’s going on?



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Well if the thinking is someone is in my home most are not going to try to find out more info.
Especially if they don't follow your command to get on the floor. Maybe he was shocked and was attempting to get off the couch? That is believable as well as the officer thinking he is getting up to attack me.
Some attorney was saying there really is no precedent for this and that is why everyone finds it so interesting.
I wonder if the family will sue DPD and the apt complex civilly after this trial. I bet they do and they should.

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[Renegade]

Maybe he was shocked and was attempting to get off the couch? That is believable as well as the officer thinking he is getting up to attack me.
Some attorney was saying there really is no precedent for this and that is why everyone finds it so interesting.

Seemed to me Botham acted like any one would. Hear a noise or commotion at your door, not unusual to get up and see what it is. I also do not fault a LEO for clearing their own house, might not be the best tactic, but it is not wrong to do either.

I think lawsuits are going to be a plenty after this one.

 

[El Spicoli]

“I was afraid he was going to kill me”. Much different. Her entire testimony is pretty much fear based.

she has to say that because the legally justifiable reason “immediately necessary” she took off the table when she admitted she had many other options she could have chosen but did not.

What would a reasonable person do in that same situation is the standard. I sure would not draw a taser if I thought a burglar was in my home and was confronting him. Another TX Ranger stated he would have drawn his gun and not his taser too.
I think that was a mistake by the prosecution to go thru that.

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[Renegade]

What would a reasonable person do in that same situation is the standard.

The actual standard from PC 9.32 is:

"when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary"

You can be in fear or not, you can correctly believe someone is going to kill you, but you ALSO have to show it was immediately necessary and you had no other options.

Another TX Ranger stated he would have drawn his gun and not his taser too.

Not sure why you think tasers have anything to do with this.

At least two DPD officers said they would have withdrawn or taken defensive positions as per their DPD training. It was pointed out she had her radio and could have had back-up even faster than the 911 2 minute response.

She has to show shooting him right then and their was "immediately necessary". I do not think she did that, I did not think her lawyer walked her through it either. I think that was a mistake. They seemed to go with a fear-based defense, which while legally incorrect, works on the emotions of many people.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Why not stay in the hallway and call it in if you're terrified? Confront if/ when they exit?

That's exactly why I posed the question.

 

[craigntx]

Did she attempt First Aide at any time? Seems to me she should have been beating on his chest while on the phone with 911 until medics/other officers came on scene. (others here with LE experience, please let us know what normal procedure is for providing First Aide to a suspect who is no longer deemed a threat).

She said she was attempting chest compressions.
Then doing that one handed while calling or texting. Prosecution using that against her. Stating the vic deserved her full attention (both hands)

I'm looking fwd to her selfies showing up on the fappening.
Appears she has nice sweater puppies