Alternate views of unlicensed carry not appreciated here - but here is one

[Rhino]

I believe it's an inherent right. Not that I don't believe in God, but rather a right bestowed upon me for being a citizen.

No matter what Biden may think or say, "We The People" are the citizens, and the government operates at the behest of it's citizens.

A well regulated militia is the citizens and is there to maintain a free state.

If you weren't a citizen, and no government was telling you what to do, no one would question your morality in carrying a weapon for defensive purposes against predators, or two legged snakes. As long as you are not the aggressor, violating God's laws against murder, theft, etc... then you are well within your natural rights as a human. When governments start disarming their citizens, and even peaceful "strangers" they are demonstrating hostility towards their fellow humans and disrespecting what would be normal in the absence of their power.

 

[General Zod]

I believe it's an inherent right. Not that I don't believe in God, but rather a right bestowed upon me for being a citizen.

Good take on it - I see way too many athiests rail against the concept of "God-given rights" to the point where they insist that a right must be granted by a benevolent government. Your rights - including the right to keep and bear arms - are intrinsic to you as a human being no matter how you believe you came to be one.

 

[candcallen]

The OP is online.

 

[rotor]

A little backstory: My Mother's Father's side of the family emigrated to the USA from Lithuania(Russia) in 1895 to escape the Czars Troops who were taking the Czars tax cut and my Great grandfather took issue and killed a couple of the Kosaks troops(Cossacks) The family that stayed (lived in Poland on Lithuanian border) later in the 1939 - 1941 range were rounded up and sent to either Treblinka or Auschwitz. They Auschwitz members were Polish Catholics and became experiments about genetics and to the best of records died there. Two great aunts along with others on Mother's fathers side. NONE of the family who remained survived the war. Mother's mothers side were Polish Hungarian border people and ended up being exterminated because they were Catholic educators. None of them survived. The big tell here is they were all denied arms for self defense by both the Czars, the Polish government and the Nazi government. History will not repeat itself here.

My maternal grandparents came from Poland, my paternal grandparents came from Austria. Any relatives that did not come were killed in the concentration camps. They all believe in gun control. Out of the entire family (what's left of it) I am basically the only one that believes in the 2A. There is no explaining the mindset. Maybe it's because they had nobody to teach them about firearms. I don't know. I learned firearms in the Cub Scouts. All of my offspring have learned from me.

 

[General Zod]

The OP is online.

I think you skeered him off...

 

[candcallen]

I think you skeered him off...

I'm just waiting to see if hes a troll or what he professed to be.

I guess we have our answer.

 

[General Zod]

My maternal grandparents came from Poland, my paternal grandparents came from Austria. Any relatives that did not come were killed in the concentration camps. They all believe in gun control. Out of the entire family (what's left of it) I am basically the only one that believes in the 2A. There is no explaining the mindset. Maybe it's because they had nobody to teach them about firearms. I don't know. I learned firearms in the Cub Scouts. All of my offspring have learned from me.

There's a lot of societal programming in Europeans to view their rights as a privilege granted to them by a benevolent government. They've been raised to be subjects, rather than citizens.

I have an Australian friend (who worked there as a cop, them moved to the UK and worked as a cop) who immigrated a few years ago and had trouble wrapping her head around our 2A protected rights. When I couched it that way - citizen vs subject - it immediately clicked for her. Now she and her husband make a good living teaching concealed carry and self defense classes in Nevada.

 

[candcallen]

I'm just waiting to see if hes a troll or what he professed to be.

I guess we have our answer.

Good thing I'm not like the movie version of patton, but the shaming a troll like his shaming a coward was the point of my post.

 

[skfullgun]

I have a cousin named Jesus...

I have a brother named Jesus...

 

[ldhunter1959]

well that was an interesting read. Many of the rebuttals did meet my expectations of name calling and the like. Of course some showed a reasonable degree of civility.
I am a native Texan. Did not realize I had been a member of this forum for 10 years.
I am more than aware of the original intent of 2A in providing the armed adult citizens to defend against tyranny by elected leaders. We all agree on right to defending ourselves, family and property.
However, 2A was also regarded as a way to avoid creating and supporting a standing army. The leaders of the era, in my readings, regarded standing armies with dread. They were used to by British and French leaders to do more than defend their borders or conduct great wars, but also to control the general populace. By resting civil defense in the arms of citizen soldiers as opposed to professional soldiers the leaders perceived the prospects of a peaceful democracy surviving would be better. That is my perception anyway.
Of course we still ended up with professional soldiers to handle the general defense of our country. No real option to that in a nuclear era.
The closest thing approximating citizen soldiers in my mind would be state/national guards. Even they are mostly former "professional" soldiers.
The guard units are frequently referenced as fulfilling the role of the militias referenced in 2A. I disagree with that assessment, but I can also see validity in that argument. I still see the citizens as having the right to being armed to protect against tyranny.
My issue with guards fulfilling the role of citizen militias focus on the fact they are organized under the same government that may be the tyranny. That is why I oppose firearms licensing...the government telling the subjects if they can have arms..
The original basis of my thread was focused on unlicensed carry. The right of the state to control where firearms can be carried and how is still viewed as constitutional. Being we are in a shall issue state, I am fine with licensed carry. That is my view. The state has to show reason for denying the permit...felony conviction for instance. The may issue states are scarey to me.
Of course the upcoming NY vs NY rifle association battle at the Supreme Court could really open some things up.



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[Axxe55]

Wow.

 

[candcallen]

I have a brother named Jesus...

I have a father sometimes named Jesus.

 

[Rhino]

I am more than aware of the original intent of 2A in providing the armed adult citizens to defend against tyranny by elected leaders. We all agree on right to defending ourselves, family and property.

My issue with guards fulfilling the role of citizen militias focus on the fact they are organized under the same government that may be the tyranny. That is why I oppose firearms licensing...the government telling the subjects if they can have arms..

Soooo... you agree that in the absence of government it would be natural for any person to potentially arm themselves in a manner appropriate to the level of threat they expected to face?

 

[candcallen]

Good thing I'm not like the movie version of patton, but the shaming a troll like his shaming a coward was the point of my post.

Shocking.

 

[Axxe55]

Shocking.

CC, stop sticking your fingers in the electrical outlet!

 

[Wiliamr]

My maternal grandparents came from Poland, my paternal grandparents came from Austria. Any relatives that did not come were killed in the concentration camps. They all believe in gun control. Out of the entire family (what's left of it) I am basically the only one that believes in the 2A. There is no explaining the mindset. Maybe it's because they had nobody to teach them about firearms. I don't know. I learned firearms in the Cub Scouts. All of my offspring have learned from me.

The experiences of our families and those like ours, definitely should wake the minds of America to the threat. I fear though, it will not.

 

[Bozz10mm]

However, 2A was also regarded as a way to avoid creating and supporting a standing army. The leaders of the era, in my readings, regarded standing armies with dread.



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The Continental Army was established in 1775, so that argument is null.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

I just came here to say that that was a stunning big “BUT” in the OP.

 

[candcallen]

The Continental Army was established in 1775, so that argument is null.

As I explained and as any elementary school kid knows.

I guess I was wrong in throwing the troll term around. Hes to ignorant too be a troll.

Not ignorant in the pejorative use of the word but truest definition.

 

[Polkwright]

Interesting article. Given the responses so far have failed to address one of the central points I'm thinking few here actually read it. That's not surprising.