“C-PAP” Looking Back

[Geezer]

I retired from the respiratory business. Sleep apnea is big money. The CPAP machines itself is not a big money maker. The big money comes from the CPAP supplies, masks, headgear, filters, tubing, etc.

Used to be that about 2 in 10 people would qualify for CPAP therapy. When I retired, nearly every sleep study would show CPAP therapy was needed.

 

[leVieux]

leVieux,

No - There was no governmental interference.

I asked her to look into it as her very labored breathing/snoring had me concerned for her while I thought she may be suffering from sleep apnea.

So she spent a night at a 'sleep clinic' and was found (as I had suspected) she did indeed suffer from sleep apnea.

They prescribed a C-Pap machine.

So now we both sleep much better.

<>

Great, many times the needs are very legit, as in Y’all’s case. Glad it worked-out well.

<>

 

[DaBull]

Used to be that about 2 in 10 people would qualify for CPAP therapy. When I retired, nearly every sleep study would show CPAP therapy was needed.

Overweight is a risk factor, and the US population is fairly overweight.

 

[benenglish]

I've been on cpap since the biggest sleep study lab in Houston was 2 beds and required human monitoring and recordation of all data for 3 nights to come up with a diagnosis. I literally went there because Oprah mentioned it on her show and a family member said "That sounds like you."

Previously, one of the highest regarded cardiologists in Houston had diagnosed me with "hyper-kinetic heart syndrome" because I was waking up with my chest pounding so hard I could watch my torso roll violently from side to side. In those days, I literally woke myself up sometimes not from the noise I made but from the sound of the painting on my bedroom wall rattling against the sheetrock as my snoring moved it. That cardiologist put me on beta blockers which might have helped my offhand shooting but didn't do a damn thing for my sleep apnea. For the docs in the house, the side effects of those beta blockers were in almost full force and when a man goes through his 20s with that handicap, he can wind up with a damn pissy attitude about it for the rest of his life. So if this subject is kinda touchy for me, please be understanding.

Anyway, "heroic" was how my level of snoring was described in the paperwork after my initial night in the sleep lab where a baseline was recorded.

When I got my first cpap machine, it was the size of a canister vacuum cleaner, made just as much noise, and the pressure was adjusted with a screwdriver applied to an external output valve as it was hooked up to an external pressure sensor. I've been through nearly every variation of machine and mask since then except for the full-face "astronaut" masks.

I know about cpap, bipap, and other stuff from way, way too many years of experience.

Yet I was never aware that any governing body over any profession had ever mandated the use of a machine. If you're supposed to be healthy to do a job that's fine but there are ways to overcome sleep problems besides cpap. I've already mentioned bipap. There's surgery. There are a variety of dental appliances that reposition the tongue and jaw. If I understood the OP correctly, though, not only were people directed to fix problems they might not have, but the method of treatment was also mandated.

If you need cpap, you need it. I find adding mouth tape each night is a big improvement. (Thanks, Cam!)

But nobody should be making broad rules forcing cpap machine usage by large categories of people. That's the sort of overreaching authoritarianism that makes my blood boil, particularly so when it threatens your livelihood.

 

[leVieux]

I retired from the respiratory business. Sleep apnea is big money. The CPAP machines itself is not a big money maker. The big money comes from the CPAP supplies, masks, headgear, filters, tubing, etc.

Used to be that about 2 in 10 people would qualify for CPAP therapy. When I retired, nearly every sleep study would show CPAP therapy was needed.

<>

Yes, and that was one big reason that the ”diagnoses” were considered questionable. No “test” should always be positive or negative.

Medicine has given itself black eyes in the past b/c of fraudulent tests. Recall the “reactive hypoglycemia” racket of the 1970’s, or the Psychiatric Hospitalizations of the 1980’s & ‘90’s ? Then, there were the “liver diseases” of the 1960’s.

Many of us honest Docs were fooled by the “reactive hypoglycemia” racket, until . . . . . . Until WHAT ? UNTIL WE REALIZED THAT THE “TESTS” were always “positive”.

I had several patients subjected to forced hospitalizations for supposed “Alcoholism” during those years. When I looked into it, what I found was this scheme:

“Are you an Alcoholic ?”

If answered “Yes”, they were admitted for inpatient “treatment”.

But,

If answered “No”, the reply was “Denial is a sign of Alcoholism”, they were admitted, anyway.

They were ALWAYS diagnosed as Alcoholic, no matter the facts. This is severe abuse as the stigma follows for a lifetime. Recall how often we’ve all encountered the question o applications of all sorts: “Have you EVER been diagnosed with Alcoholism?”

Then, there were very remarkable “coincidences”; when the clinical need for inpatient treatments always coincided perfectly with their limits of insurance coverage for that service.

This led to overall distrust of Psychiatrists by other Physicians, and soon many of the recently re-christened “Mental Facilities” were shut-down +/or converted again, this time to P T places or “Rehab Hospitals”.

There has always been some element of public distrust of hospitals; but on those occasions, the suspicions were well-deserved; b/c the hospitals WERE acting dishomestly, for profit.

When they exhausted the above scams, they then made “Autism” & “AD/HD” many times as frequent as they had been while the prior scams were running.

Note that I didn’t call any of these conditions fraudulent; only their repeated overdiagnoses.


Beware anything which sounds “not-right”, and ask your Family Doc, as needed.

<>

 

[leVieux]

I've been on cpap since the biggest sleep study lab in Houston was 2 beds and required human monitoring and recordation of all data for 3 nights to come up with a diagnosis. I literally went there because Oprah mentioned it on her show and a family member said "That sounds like you."

Previously, one of the highest regarded cardiologists in Houston had diagnosed me with "hyper-kinetic heart syndrome" because I was waking up with my chest pounding so hard I could watch my torso roll violently from side to side. In those days, I literally woke myself up sometimes not from the noise I made but from the sound of the painting on my bedroom wall rattling against the sheetrock as my snoring moved it. That cardiologist put me on beta blockers which might have helped my offhand shooting but didn't do a damn thing for my sleep apnea. For the docs in the house, the side effects of those beta blockers were in almost full force and when a man goes through his 20s with that handicap, he can wind up with a damn pissy attitude about it for the rest of his life. So if this subject is kinda touchy for me, please be understanding.

Anyway, "heroic" was how my level of snoring was described in the paperwork after my initial night in the sleep lab where a baseline was recorded.

When I got my first cpap machine, it was the size of a canister vacuum cleaner, made just as much noise, and the pressure was adjusted with a screwdriver applied to an external output valve as it was hooked up to an external pressure sensor. I've been through nearly every variation of machine and mask since then except for the full-face "astronaut" masks.

I know about cpap, bipap, and other stuff from way, way too many years of experience.

Yet I was never aware that any governing body over any profession had ever mandated the use of a machine. If you're supposed to be healthy to do a job that's fine but there are ways to overcome sleep problems besides cpap. I've already mentioned bipap. There's surgery. There are a variety of dental appliances that reposition the tongue and jaw. If I understood the OP correctly, though, not only were people directed to fix problems they might not have, but the method of treatment was also mandated.

If you need cpap, you need it. I find adding mouth tape each night is a big improvement. (Thanks, Cam!)

But nobody should be making broad rules forcing cpap machine usage by large categories of people. That's the sort of overreaching authoritarianism that makes my blood boil, particularly so when it threatens your livelihood.

<>

Quite a ramble, but you got the facts exactly correct.

And, your: “beta blockers which might have helped my offhand shooting” is going to become an instant classic !

The mandate was from deep state bureaucrats via DoT & FAA threats to cancel our licenses to drive & fly.

Notice they never threatened to cancel anyone’s regular drivers license, as that would likely have precipitated a political crisis, resulting in some REAL scientific investigation.

We just cannot trust anything from our federal government any longer !

leVieux

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[red442joe]

Tagged

Joe

 

[motorcarman]

I have a few N PAPs (Yugo M70s) but I never needed a C PAP.

 

[PinnedandRecessed]

I have a few N PAPs (Yugo M70s) but I never needed a C PAP.

O-PAP for the win

 

[PinnedandRecessed]

If you're worried about your machine tattling on you, it can't tattle if the modem is disabled. Arguing mandatory compliance is a nuanced issue. Should we have privacy? Yes. Should the public have to worry about pilots and CDL drivers being asleep at the wheel? No.

We can also talk about all the regulations, disqualifiers, and mandatory compliance regarding insulin dependent diabetes.

 

[Geezer]

The criteria may have changed but, it used to take 5.0 Apnea-Hypopnea Index events per hour to qualify for a CPAP. Medicare set the guidelines and most every insurance companies follow Medicare's guidelines.

Our company worked closely with several doctor's offices. When I say "worked closely" I mean we kissed their butts to get all of their CPAP business. Free lunches for the office, office supplies, after hours parties, etc.

We would regularly see patients with a 5.0 AHI or a 5.3 AHI and their doctor would order them to be set up on CPAP. After all, they did technically qualify. I'd say 90% of these people failed at CPAP. They just didn't want to use the machine, wear the mask, deal with the whole thing. Since their AHI was so low, they didn't realize any results.

However, patients that tested and had an AHI of 9 or 10 and up, usually did comply and many saw good, positive results. Many people thrive and benefit from CPAP therapy and are loyal users. But, too many people were being prescribed CPAP therapy and they didn't really want or need it.

 

[Txhighlander]

I had to start using one due to the overreach of the FMCSA . Admittedly I needed it but I didn't like being forced into it.

 

[leVieux]

I had to start using one due to the overreach of the FMCSA . Admittedly I needed it but I didn't like being forced into it.

<>

I went on the “Naturally Slim / WondR” weight reduction program from UT Health Dallas & LSU Pennington Center; lost 73#, told them to shove their C-Pap machine.

I have stabilized around 180, some 66# down, some 3.5 years later.

<>

 

[IXLR8]

My CPAP only holds a months data. I see supporting doctor once a year and it has no other access outside my house.

I also monitor my SPO2 via a device I wear at night. I would be dead without the CPAP. I drop to 80% without it and stay above 95% with it.

I am pretty certain that at least some older people sustain memory problems as a result of poor sleep oxygenation.

I recommend everyone over 60 monitor their SPO2. An Apple Watch can do a great job, but too bad people charge them at night when their data collection would be most useful.

 

[General Zod]

My CPAP only holds a months data. I see supporting doctor once a year and it has no other access outside my house.

I also monitor my SPO2 via a device I wear at night. I would be dead without the CPAP. I drop to 80% without it and stay above 95% with it.

I am pretty certain that at least some older people sustain memory problems as a result of poor sleep oxygenation.

I recommend everyone over 60 monitor their SPO2. An Apple Watch can do a great job, but too bad people charge them at night when their data collection would be most useful.

Yeah, making shit up about CPAP machines "reporting back" to some overreaching nefarious gubbmint organization for...whatever reason is idiocy. A CPAP machine has a memory card. The card in mine has neve been accessed by anyone. When my machine wore out I acquired another and it has an empty card slot - and it still works just fine. There's no wireless connection of any kind. It's not on a network. And without the machine I get about 30 minutes of good sleep per night and my BP goes up into "stroke risk" territory.

Some people have too damn much time on their hands.

 

[Eastexasrick]

OP hat display

 

[TipBledsoe]

<>’

You DID “miss the point”, entirely.

Adios !

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Nope…. I chose to ignore “your point” because “your point” is complete and utter horse pucky. So the only thing left from your message was your disdain for “those damned “C-PAP” machines” that I rebuffed.

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Adios! (because Proverbs 26:4-5)

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[leVieux]

Yeah, making shit up about CPAP machines "reporting back" to some overreaching nefarious gubbmint organization for...whatever reason is idiocy. A CPAP machine has a memory card. The card in mine has neve been accessed by anyone. When my machine wore out I acquired another and it has an empty card slot - and it still works just fine. There's no wireless connection of any kind. It's not on a network. And without the machine I get about 30 minutes of good sleep per night and my BP goes up into "stroke risk" territory.

Some people have too damn much time on their hands.

<>

WRONG, again.

As an active Pilot, mine contained a modem and most certainly DID “report back”.

I don’t know anything about your equipment.

I was forced, under threat of loss of license, to “participate”, and was told that, if I missed 3 nights/month, my “medical” would be cancelled, resulting in complete loss of Pilot “privileges”.

leVieux

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[DaBull]

My sleep apnea was diagnosed while on active duty, so Tricare paid for it, and now that I am retired, the VA pays for it. As I posted earlier, they check my ResMed CPAP device every Jun to ensure it is working properly and I am using it. When they call me for the annual check in, they typically say, "we already pulled your data and you are using it on average X hours per night and they system is working properly and keeping your airway open." The CPAP display has a cell bar strength symbol showing, so I assume that is how they pull the data. When the VA took over my care, they asked me to bring my machine in for inspection. That is when they activated the remote connection. If I had ignored the inspection invitation, then they would not have ordered the supplies for me until I came in. Bottom line with the VA: if you don't submit to the wireless reporting, you get no sleep apnea care or disability payment. In any case, I was diagnosed and need care, so I don't mind the monitoring. The monitoring will ensure I get a new machine when this one starts failing. But if you are not diagnosed and forced to submit to this level of monitoring...that's govt overreach.

Finally, I do not think the VA is monitoring my sleeping habits on a daily basis or using my CPAP to listen in on my household...but I suppose they could if they convinced ResMed to install a mic.

 

[Eastexasrick]

Adios! (because Proverbs 26:4-5)

Excellent, would that I could. I try but, it is just do darn hard, to resist poking at him. I will try harder.