UNCONVENTIONAL SITTING POSITIONS

[Semper Fidelis]

Now, here's a serious question. Can you point me to an online resource that publishes, in English, the rules for your discipline? If so, I've always found that to take advantage of all practices allowed under the rules of a game, one must first know the rules to the letter.

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www.issf-sports.org

See 7.6.1 and next

Original website : https://www.issf-sports.org/

But my goal IS NOT to respect any rules, just to find a very efficient sitting position at all.

Thank's of your contribution.

The OP writer ;-)

 

[benenglish]

Oh, lovely. Reading ISSF rules is always fun.

I once built an airgun range according to their rules even though I'd never seen one in person. I figured if it complied with the written rules, it would be fine, right? Oh, no. The biggest complaint I got was that the height of the bench in front of the shooters was too tall. I mean, people were seriously upset about it. Apparently it didn't matter what the rules said, there was some sort of convention that everyone adhered to...but didn't feel the need to let me in on.

Enough ranting. I'm off to do some reading.

 

[BigRed]

I dated this southern Baptist girl back in the day...

 

[benenglish]

Just for the entertainment of our USA members, here's an excerpt that shows you how much the ISSF remains laser-focused on shooting and only shooting. </sarcasm>

This is actually in the rules:

Athletes are reminded that the image of athletes and their equipment, when
being broadcast or photographed, must be in keeping with the presentation
of an Olympic sport. Therefore rifles and attachments should not look as if
they are held together with adhesive tape, cable-ties, or other temporary
means. A large cluster of lead automobile wheel-balance weights is unsightly
and inappropriate and should be concealed or avoided.

SMDH.

 

[benenglish]

Semper Fidelis, a question, if you don't mind.

I see the rules do not require shooting from a sitting position. Only kneeling, standing, and prone are used.

Are you shooting a club-level or other sort of match that isn't (technically) run under ISSF rules? Or maybe just seeks to adhere to the perceived spirit of those rules?

If such is the case, your original question gets much broader.

If I don't have a written definition of seating, then I begin to speculate on the use of the Creedmoor positions that riflemen used back in the 1800s where they are sometimes on their backs. If sitting is understood to be "buttocks on the ground" and not much else, those positions may well come into play. They would, I'm sure, violate the spirit of whatever rules you're using but looking at them might provide some inspiration to break the conventional modes of thinking about positions. Sometimes those unconventional approaches wind up being accepted and becoming a part of standard doctrine, e.g. the squat or "rice paddy prone" position, a position my father tended to use by default, is taught in many rifle classes today although it was basically considered a ghetto abomination from WW2 (where my dad used it) until well into the Vietnam conflict.

ETA - Re-reading the post where you provided those links, I think I was misunderstanding. You want to sit and be solid. Rules compliance is not the focus. Is that right?

 

[benenglish]

...this is the most stable position I found. ...

Did the bog-standard, crossed-ankles sitting position not work for you?

I note that David Tubb, possibly the best rifleman I've ever met, used a pretty standard crossed-ankles sitting position except he got quite low, almost letting his entire body sink down into a solid lump from which the rifle projected. I put up this video of him a while back.

 

[benenglish]

I never cared for the classic hunter's sitting position (or field target position) where the legs were spread and heels dig into the dirt. It doesn't work on paved firing lines when practicing and it doesn't work in the field unless you've got a backrest. At least not for me. With a tree to lean against, I like it, but not otherwise. (I'm sorta throwing these out there to establish a baseline of what you've tried and what you haven't, btw.)

 

[benenglish]

Just like the post above this one, the position in the OP (also stands for Original Post, Semper Fidelis) is also called sitting field target. At least it is in this scientific paper from Brazil.

 

[benenglish]

The 1870s-style Creedmoor positions haven't fallen completely out of use. I'm going to guess this falls too far outside what you'd consider sitting, though. Am I right, SF?

 

[msharley]

I dated this southern Baptist girl back in the day...

"Bless yer heart." is all she said....

 

[benenglish]

And I've sent a few thousand rounds downrange using this position. Again, probably not exactly a sitting position but I wouldn't call it a form of prone, either, since neither the front or back of the body is in contact with the ground.

I've always wondered if anyone adapted this for shooting a rifle.

 

[toddnjoyce]

And I've sent a few thousand rounds downrange using this position. Again, probably not exactly a sitting position but I wouldn't call it a form of prone, either, since neither the front or back of the body is in contact with the ground.

I've always wondered if anyone adapted this for shooting a rifle.

View attachment 429459

Side saddle is a modified version, I think.

 

[popper]

Military training with Garand was kinda like this but feet closer.

 

[benenglish]

I don't know if I should have responded to this thread. I've developed a kind of itch to attend an Appleseed.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I don't know if I should have responded to this thread. I've developed a kind of itch to attend an Appleseed.

Yess, thank's a lot !

Semper Fidelis, a question, if you don't mind.

I see the rules do not require shooting from a sitting position. Only kneeling, standing, and prone are used.

Are you shooting a club-level or other sort of match that isn't (technically) run under ISSF rules? Or maybe just seeks to adhere to the perceived spirit of those rules?

I'm just shooting for the pleasure and my best pleasure while shooting is to use old material to see what they already could do at the time with a sharpshooter behind.

ETA - Re-reading the post where you provided those links, I think I was misunderstanding. You want to sit and be solid. Rules compliance is not the focus. Is that right?

THAT IS PERFECTLY RIGHT !


Thank's to all for your pics, they reveal the situation a shooter has to be very low and stable, even if to do so they do not use the "useful" stock. Without changing the original question in the OP (now I know what it means) on some pictures we see the barrel being in contact with a leg. I wonder if this does not change the harmonic of the barrel.

Good night..

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Did the bog-standard, crossed-ankles sitting position not work for you?

I note that David Tubb, possibly the best rifleman I've ever met, used a pretty standard crossed-ankles sitting position except he got quite low, almost letting his entire body sink down into a solid lump from which the rifle projected.

I admir David TUBB ! I've tried this position but I'm not flexible enough and with time it's not going to be better.

I might have to do some exercice first (but no time)

 

[toddnjoyce]

…a shooter has to be very low and stable..

That’s kind of fundamental. When self-supporting, the more closely the shooter can meld with the firearm into a solid base, the more likely precision and accuracy are to improve. The key is repeatability of attaining that meld, so the position has to be at least comfortable enough that you sustain it thru sight picture acquisition and follow thru.

I’ve never truly been able to find a comfortable enough ‘traditional’ sitting shooting position to do that; something to do with my noassitol affliction and limited flexibility, I guess. Kneeling and prone variations enable that for me, though.

My go to prone is a variation of the pic below where the left hand goes under the right forearm and is actually used to wrap the right elbow in tight to the body and the body offsets slightly left so the forearms brace in each other have as much contact with the ground as possible, essentially turning them into a improvised bone-on-bone shooting rest that’s one with the ground.

 

[oohrah]

I don't see anybody using a sling, especially offhand.

 

[leVieux]

Just for the entertainment of our USA members, here's an excerpt that shows you how much the ISSF remains laser-focused on shooting and only shooting. </sarcasm>

This is actually in the rules:



SMDH.

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Non-verbal ‘’political correctness’’, anyone ?

One of my late Dad’s greatest fears after returning from WWII Europe was that Germany would be ‘’over-pacified’’.

It looks that he was prescient & very correct.


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[toddnjoyce]

I don't see anybody using a sling, especially offhand.

Context? The buffalo hunter in post 10 and modified side saddle in 32 both demonstrate use of sling, albeit not clearly.