White House "Anti-Gun" Task Force Proposals - Discussion

[GRAYWOLF]

GRAYWOLF, you are wrong, it is NOT ok to have to provide the data needed todo the background check to the show organizer. Piss your rights away if
you want, but leave mine alone.

How would this work anyway??

Would there be a background check when you pay your entry fee, think of how long it would take just to get into the show.

Does the show host give you a hand stamp or some card to show to the seller?

Who enforces this?

What if you do not pass the check, are you not allowed into the show?

What if you have no intention to buy a gun at the show?

What is to stop the buyer/seller from meeting at the show, but walking
outside to the street to do the transaction?

....etc...

You already have to do a BG check to purchase from a dealer. Currently that dealer runs you. This ties your name to that dealer if they want to look you up to see if you actually bought one, all the have to do is approach that dealer and request your paperwork. What I am suggesting is the check be done by the host. Not a requirement for entry, just a requirement to buy (like now). This breaks the tie to that dealer. The host could devise an official form of identification to use during that show to prove you have passed the check. Absolutely no change in your current process of buying at a show other than who actually does the background check and how many times you have to provide your ID to the Feds if you buy from more than one seller.

The "approval ID" could be as simple as a printout of your info with the approval number. Records retention requirements don't have to change...the seller can still write the approval # on their records like they do now.

 

[berto40]

I think this is just another gateway for the electronic medical record issue. This has been a big push for a long time now. The EMR would allow anyone to go to any hospital anywhere in the 'system' and your medical records are only a few keystrokes away. From what I've read and heard(I work in the field and have been to a couple of HIMSS conferences), it seems like the biggest battle was who was going to maintain this big 'national later to be international' medical record database. Private industry doesn't care who handles it so long as it is maintained or they get paid to maintain it, and citizens don't want the government to have access to this kind of data...who blames us. The 'Obamacare' Act will expand what data the government receives in order to pay out to providers, and now a mental health record check from God knows where is going to be pulled and checked.

Just my $.02

 

[daddy]

If protecting children is truly his goal, he should worry about the budget and the mounting debt in this country. THAT is going to harm more kids than guns ever will.

 

[1slow01Z71]

Maybr I'm just stupid but WTF are "armor piercing" bullets that us civilians have access to? Pretty much any decent rifle caliber will swiss cheese body armor.

 

[Younggun]

Maybr I'm just stupid but WTF are "armor piercing" bullets that us civilians have access to? Pretty much any decent rifle caliber will swiss cheese body armor.

According to Caumo it includes Teflon coated and incendiary bullets which "can defeat any body armor worn by police".

Of course that is completely untrue but who cares about facts when there's an agenda to push.

 

[Koinonia]

According to Caumo it includes Teflon coated and incendiary bullets which "can defeat any body armor worn by police".

Of course that is completely untrue but who cares about facts when there's an agenda to push.

Indeed... I can get Level 4 Plates, that can take multiple hits from 30.06 AP rounds... they just weigh 8 - 12lbs each. And I'm not even a police officer.

 

[Anger]

Indeed... I can get Level 4 Plates, that can take multiple hits from 30.06 AP rounds... they just weigh 8 - 12lbs each. And I'm not even a police officer.

now that you remind me I'm surprised there's no provision for antibody armor legislation. it was 1 of the agenda items post by that how do I say female body part Feinstein

 

[recoveringyankee]

You already have to do a BG check to purchase from a dealer. Currently that dealer runs you. This ties your name to that dealer if they want to look you up to see if you actually bought one, all the have to do is approach that dealer and request your paperwork. What I am suggesting is the check be done by the host. Not a requirement for entry, just a requirement to buy (like now). This breaks the tie to that dealer. The host could devise an official form of identification to use during that show to prove you have passed the check. Absolutely no change in your current process of buying at a show other than who actually does the background check and how many times you have to provide your ID to the Feds if you buy from more than one seller.

The "approval ID" could be as simple as a printout of your info with the approval number. Records retention requirements don't have to change...the seller can still write the approval # on their records like they do now.

You solution makes the transaction LESS secure then it s today, assuming that we all agree to "keeping guns out of the hands of undesirables" to be the secure goal.

The current protocol is(from my observation, can an FFL chime in and describe the phone conversation.), I give my information to the FFL, the FFL provides a subset of that information to a voice(?) at a specific phone number. The voice responds with some information, the FFL decides based on that information if he can sell me the gun or not. Records are created and saved.

If the voice indicates that I am NOT to have the weapon and the FFL decides to ignore this and sell me the gun I assume they are liable and in for some HUGE trouble.


You proposal puts me at higher risk, I have to give my background information to a third party to the transaction. This third party has no need for it and is another vector for leaking or theft of my information.

The FFL is at a higher risk because they receive the approval information via me who got it from a third party(the show host's people) How does the FFL know that the information that I provide is not copied from somebody else or even real? Unless the liability for selling a gun to an undesirable is removed form the FFL, no sane FFL would accept the "approval ID" that I provide them. Unless the FFL hears the approval code from the voice on the phone call they are putting themselves at unnecessary risk of being spoofed.

 

[matefrio]

SEE POST #5 For more detailed links and such. I'll be keeping it up to date as best I can.

 

[TxDad]

If protecting children is truly his goal, he should worry about the budget and the mounting debt in this country. THAT is going to harm more kids than guns ever will.

Hey, Its Daddy from TMC!

 

[CoonAss]

Hi folks, a buddy of mine suggested your forum! And while I live right next door, however my cousin has a ranch over in your neck of the woods and I'd live there in a minute if I could! But, on to the topic, right?

Look, if they are really and truly looking for a "MURDEROUS WEAPONS" TO BAN (that are known to kill millions each year)? THEN I'D SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS THIS IS THE WEAPON THAT THEY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THIS (as it clearly kills a helluva of lot more children than that of any GUNS that OBama is so ambitiously in pursuit of), right?



As that my friends is a true "Weapon of Mass Destruction"! But you don't hear any of them screaming and crying for it's BAN, now do you? Imagine that a little hypocrisy, from the left huh? Who would have thought such?

You know, the really funny thing in all of this (if there is such when your rights are being violated) is that all the "talk and / or rage" is all about what they term as being "Assault Weapons" (which makes no sense to me whatsoever but who am I - just a tax payer right)? The point being is that they are all up on the "Hi-Capacity" Rifle type weapons, are they not? Therefore has anyone even stopped to think about the fact that the Sandy Hope punk never even got the AR-15 out of the trunk? So can someone please explain to me why it is that are so rabid in going after what they term as being an "assault" weapon? I MEAN, IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT HYPOCRITES, THEN THERE THEY ARE, PERIOD! Because the fact that this cat never even brandished the AR-15 (that was still in the trunk of his Mom's Car) after the whole Sandy Hope event was over, right? So please help me to understand why we are even having to discuss all of this in the first place?? This whole thing is ludicrous and just plain wrong!

 

[CoonAss]

if protecting children is truly his goal, he should worry about the budget and the mounting debt in this country. That is going to harm more kids than guns ever will.

amen!!!

 

[GRAYWOLF]

That is where an official document from the Host for the buyer to present to any seller. Present the doc with a State ID. The doc will have something like the ID# or something to verify the approval # belongs to the buyer.

Host is liable for any info they save and the seller is liable for any info they save.

This would add some protection for the buyer from big brother snooping.

I have mixed feelings on telling the government I am interested in a gun to begin with...just thinking of ways to achieve teh same ends while making it slightly more difficult to follow the trail.

 

[recoveringyankee]

That is where an official document from the Host for the buyer to present to any seller. Present the doc with a State ID. The doc will have something like the ID# or something to verify the approval # belongs to the buyer.

"Official document"??? is that like a bill of sale?? How would this "Official document" not be forged, copied, stolen? How would the FFL know that the document presented belongs to the presenter and know that the approval number is valid? How does this new protocol actually work? Since my information would not be maintained by the show host and it gets leaked, sold, or stolen, how is that information tracked back to the offending show host so that they can be prosecuted and me made whole?

Who pays for this new protocol, equipment, training, document security, etc....

Host is liable for any info they save and the seller is liable for any info they save.

Information security is hard, the more people that have my information the less secure it is for me. Currently the only trust I need to place in the show's host is that they let me in after I pay, your proposal makes me have to trust the show's host and all their employees with my information, thus making me less secure.

This would add some protection for the buyer from big brother snooping.

Big brother can already snoop all the information from the FFL that I pick, you are suggesting a new system where my information is in even more hands.

I have mixed feelings on telling the government I am interested in a gun to begin with...just thinking of ways to achieve teh same ends while making it slightly more difficult to follow the trail.

But you are ok with telling the gun show's host that you are interested, why is that?

 

[Martinus_Turonis]

The POTUS, such as Obama, can suspend by executive order, all FFLs for whatever reason. Obama can't stop F2F sales without signing a bill into law. If we are required to do a transfer through an FFL, of course the FFL would charge a fee and is required to store the Form 4473 for 20 years. The BATFE can request any FFL any or all of their records including all the 4473's. According to the GOA, they have been making copies for years.. Obama is suggesting gun registration and he is looking for more ways to disqualify firearms ownership. There are enough out of work slackers that would love an easy job of scanning 4473's into computers for $30 a hour. Now you have gun registration so that just about every firearm is part of a national registry. I think the next step would be to force all gun owners to register their firearms in order to purchase ammunition. Of course they would track the amount of ammo you purchased since they would do background checks for that also. What you now have is the ability to halt all gun sales and transfers by executive order. If your firearm disappears and you don't report it, felony. If you sell your firearm F2F without a transfer, felony. If your lost firearm shows up in an arrest or you are caught with it, felony. They would force you to have liability insurance for your firearm and make you liable for crimes committed if your firearm is stolen. $$$$. They will keep adding more regulations and more bureaucratic crap along with fees and taxes every year.
Incremental gun confiscation. That is how it works on a nation with as many guns as we have. Just make it too expensive and to much of a liability to own a gun.

 

[matefrio]

The POTUS, such as Obama, can suspend by executive order, all FFLs for whatever reason.

I really want him to try this... Supreme court would have his lunch.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Hmm-that's odd

 

[Anger]

Carney said NRA are cowards using Obama's children for an ad and political debate, yet Obama has kids posted up on the podium.

I feel bomb is a coward for using children in this debate, and at the same time refusing to acknowledge that every person every child on that stage will oh the equivalent of 1,000,000 dollars national debt by the time that child is ready to retire. that right there is criminal

 

[daddy]

Hey, Its Daddy from TMC!

Shh. Don't tell anybody.

 

[mikeofcontex]

Taking this post back to keep track of some of the updates and provide information.

Read or watch the speach:

Full text of speech :: Obama gun control speech transcript: Complete text of Obama's gun proposals, executive measures

Video of Speech:: Error | C-SPAN

More Detail on Recomendations

Overview of 23 executive actions:: List of executive actions Obama plans to take as part of anti-gun violence plan | Fox News

More detail from the WH press release:: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=...13/01/Gun+Violence+Fact+Sheet.pdf&chrome=true

Actions Taken\Results under Executive Actions:

Completing #6 Executive Action ATF releases FFL letter:: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...s-of-firearms-between-private-individuals.pdf

Responses to Speech

NRA: http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...ponse-obamas-gun-control-plan.html#post563239

Texas Gov. Rick P. http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...ernor-perrys-response-obamas-gun-control.html

Texas Elected Officials ::UPDATED: Texas’ elected officials react to President Obama’s sweeping proposals on gun control | Texas on the Potomac | a Chron.com blog

Mayor Leffingwell responds to Obama's gun plan | kvue.com Austin

Pro Gun Anti Gun
Sen. Ted Cruz R-Texas
Rep. Steve Stockman, R-Friendswood
Rep. Lamar Smith, R-San Antonio, chairman of House Committee on Science, Space and Technology:
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Houston, a Senior Member of the HouseHomeland Security and Judiciary Committees:
Rep. Pete Olson, R-Sugar Land
Rep. Pete Gallego, D-Alpine
Rep. John Culberson, R- Houston
Rep. Randy Weaver, R-Pearland
Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Austin
Rep. Kevin Brady, R- The Woodlands
Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Tyler
Austin Mayor Leffingwell

Freedom Watch Suit :: Obama sued to stop gun task force

Spring Guns and Ammo Houston TX :: GUN LAWS: Spring gun store owner responds to proposed assault rifle ban - Your Houston News: News: guns, ban, obama,

Keep your eye on Brady... he proved that he can be bought in the fiscal cliff vote.