Starbucks

[cbigclarke]

Actually the open carry exhibition nuts caused this by using SB.

And your proof of this is...

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[Texan2]

And your proof of this is...

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Open carry people tended to use SB as a gathering point.

 

[TheDan]

Starbucks: Guns unwelcome, but not banned from stores | Fox News

CEO Howard Schultz said the decision to ask customers to stop bringing guns into stores came as a result of the growing frequency of "Starbucks Appreciation Days," in which gun rights advocates turned up at Starbucks cafes with firearms.
...
As for the "Starbucks Appreciation Days" being staged by gun rights advocates, it stresses: "To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores."

so they don't want any more appreciation from gun owners... I can accommodate that request.

 

[London]

It blows my mind that people will support a company which asks/demands them not to exercise their Constitutional rights. And for what? Coffee? Wild wings? "Yeah, freedom is good and everything, but ****... gotta have my overpriced junk food." Our forefathers would be so proud.

I used to go out of my way to buy Starbucks even though I can easily make anything on their menu at home for 1/5 the price in the comfort of my own home. If they want my money then they can respect my rights. The two are inseparable.

Starbucks might not have wanted to get dragged into this but they did. Sometimes that's business. Compare their response to the few restaurants who have made the news for giving people who carry guns a discount on their bill.

 

[Pilgrim]

Having read the open letter a little more closely...

Here's an interesting question; since Schultz went on record to say that "...customers [can] no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel..." have they effectively given everyone notice that firearms (open or concealed) are not allowed on their premises? Posted notice or not I don't like what the subcontext might be.

Could this lead to arrests if people carrying concealed are discovered in their stores? Is this a veiled attempt at being anti-gun without actually coming right out and posting 30.06 signs? If so, I think I may have to change my mind about Starbucks - they won't get my money for damn sure.

 

[just jk]

I will still remain a Starbuck coffee lover. If I owned a retail establishment that was not gun related, I doubt I would want people toting rifles around in my store. From a business standpoint it is very disruptive.
If that made them shop elsewhere, so be it.

Consider this the daily dose of reality.

this


i dont see this letter as anything more than one man's feelings about guns - and nothing else. he isnt banning them - he isnt going to "not serve" you if you come in carrying concealed - no barrista is going to challenge you

i'll keep on drinking my starbucks.....i didnt ever believe they were a conservative based company in the first place. the world is FULL of people that disagree with me on any number of things. if i like something, i'm going to consume it. period.

 

[just jk]

i'm seeing my 2A people on twitter threatening boycotts - and then admitting that they dont even drink starbucks

jeebus people its just a cup of friggin coffee - save the rage for sh*t that matters

 

[Renegade]

Having read the open letter a little more closely...

Here's an interesting question; since Schultz went on record to say that "...customers [can] no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel..." have they effectively given everyone notice that firearms (open or concealed) are not allowed on their premises? Posted notice or not I don't like what the subcontext might be.

Could this lead to arrests if people carrying concealed are discovered in their stores? Is this a veiled attempt at being anti-gun without actually coming right out and posting 30.06 signs? If so, I think I may have to change my mind about Starbucks - they won't get my money for damn sure.

Not what he wrote:

http://globalassets.starbucks.com/blog/an-open-letter-from-howard-schultz/1268

For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.

 

[V-Tach]

I honestly don't know what my opinion is on this whole sordid story is yet. I'm still trying to get information to make up my mind one way or the other.

I do know that the hardest part of freedom is letting the other guy have his is definitely true..



Another point of view.....

Well. We have done it.

I say we, as in the collective gun-owners and 2nd Amendment supporters/enthusiasts of this nation. We win together, and we lose together.

Last week, we shared a major victory in Colorado with the recall of two anti-gun politicians. Thats our Win.

This week, we have finally forced Starbucks to choose a side in the great gun debate. All the sabre rattling, and “starbucks appreciation days” and open carry foolishness we could throw at them. They finally made a decision.

Good Job. Well done. We have “educated” them and their “liberal” customers who don’t particularly share our views and affinity for all things that go bang.

The decision is in, and it is not in our favor. Starbucks has said that they do not wish to see “guns as a part of the Starbucks experience.” We have educated them to the point that they would prefer we just go away…or at least leave them out of it. They have said that they will not ask anyone open-carrying to leave, nor will they post signs regarding the policy. Frankly, I wish they would. I hope the “activists” have the intestinal fortitude to respect their wishes…but I’m not holding my breath based on how they have acted in the past. Calling for a boycott is weak-sauce, too.

We have essentially forced neutral Switzerland into the hands of the Nazis. A company that was not restrictive in their corporate policy. A company who followed local law. We forced them onto the national stage– without consulting them about it, I might add– and into the center of a rather divisive debate. Replete with “I Love Guns and Coffee” patches and t-shirts and mugs and all sorts of other cute little trinkets.

Instead of quietly supporting a company through the purchase of their product to show your appreciation, you just had to load up an AR, AK, or shotgun or put on that fancy “tactical” drop leg holster, call all of your gun-guy friends to meet you there, and march into the place to “Make a statement” and “educate” people on our rights.

You had to throw that rifle on your back, knowing damn good and well you were going to cause a scene. If you DIDNT know you were going to cause a scene, you’re an idiot when you consider the multiple “active killer/mass murder” incidents of very recent notoriety. You have allowed those of us who choose to be smart regarding these matters to get a black eye from society and, you are directly responsible for allowing the left a small victory.

The attention-whoreness of it all is rather disturbing.

My guess is that you are the same ones who only carry when you are trying to bait a cop or ruffle feathers or trying to “educate” people….well, you did. Congratulations. (P.S. Of the eleventy-billion videos of seen on YouTube wherein folks of your ilk try to “educate” cops on the law, Ive seen about 5 that were legitimate)

Don’t complain now because the company had to make a business decision to make their customers and workers feel more comfortable and/or safe. Remember that YOU are responsible. YOU forced their hand. YOU are the reason they made this choice.

We have turned the debate into a joke. Yes, we are all responsible.

Whether youre an (A) “in your face activist” as previously mentioned, or a (B) gun owner who doesnt agree with them but remains silent and thereby complicit, we are all responsible. Own it.

Personally I fall into the latter category (B). I think the first category are a bunch of fools, and open carry is a piss-poor method of carry outside of a few distinct instances. I have remained silent on the issue, but that ends today. I don’t want to be represented as a gun owner by those who choose to act as those described above. A tactical victory is never worth a strategic defeat. In the end this has hurt us in a battle where we are making progress. If we dont “eat our own” and correct these issues, the OTHER SIDE will. We have lost ground due to tomfoolery, chicanery, and general shenanigans. If we don’t get on the same page, we will continue to give up ground.

Much like how we get irritated when the “not terrorist” muslims dont come out and outright condemn muslim terrorist acts and organizations…we are taking the same track by not raising the bullshit flag when we ought to. We have to police our own. No successful organization, entity, or cause embraces personnel or spokesmen who damage the image and value of the brand.

There is strong precedent that responsible activism, grassroots campaigns, and legal processes can make a tangible difference. Just ask two former Colorado politicians. Ask our Founding Fathers. Ask any number of successful organizations or causes.

And now the internet comes to life on the topic. There are alot of ”scuffles” and debates going on about how Starbucks is wrong to take this stance, or how we (gun owners) shouldn’t “eat our own” with regards to the fools who just have to “educate the public” with their open carrying of guns, and treating them as if they were nothing more than a high end fashion accessory. Still others say that while they dont disagree with Starbuck’s policy, they dont like being “lumped in” with “those guys” — talking about the aforementioned “educators and keepers of liberty”

One internet poster said: “I never believed Starbucks was an ally anyway.” I would say he may be right. They weren’t. They are an outfit that sells coffee. Period. They just had a policy that wasn’t restrictive, and followed local law. They were unwillingly and unwittingly co-opted by the “rabid gun movement” people, and literally thrust on the national stage in the midst of a highly charged debate without their consultation on the matter.

This is why we can’t have nice things.

Don’t blame Starbucks, and don’t blame liberals. Blame stupid gun owners.

Look in the mirror, own it, give yourself a pep-talk, and go fix it.

Practical takeaway: Just because you CAN doesn’t always mean you SHOULD.

Link to Story/

 

[Pilgrim]

if i like something, i'm going to consume it. period.

Even if you might be supporting a company that's anti-gun? What if that same company contributes to the same lobbies that threaten your 2A rights... would you still continue to hand them your cash because you like their products?

I'm not saying that Starbucks is anti-gun... at best they're just a middle of the road company just trying to protect their business. However, if a company proves itself to be against some segment of our Bill of Rights (be it 1A, 2A, whatever) why would you continue to support them?

 

[just jk]

Even if you might be supporting a company that's anti-gun? What if that same company contributes to the same lobbies that threaten your 2A rights... would you still continue to hand them your cash because you like their products?

I'm not saying that Starbucks is anti-gun... at best they're just a middle of the road company just trying to protect their business. However, if a company proves itself to be against some segment of our Bill of Rights (be it 1A, 2A, whatever) why would you continue to support them?

do you have any idea how many anti 2a people are out there?

i really dont give a shit that people think differently than me - its part of life. why would i continue to support them? because i like their coffee. i get really tired of politicizing every faction of my life and frankly i dont know how some of you people have the energy for it - i have more important things going on in my life

buying a cup of starbucks isnt doing a single thing towards removing the guns in my safe - it hasnt affected my Texas CHL.....

at least he has the balls to tell us what his beliefs are - because I would bet that there are MANY companies who keep quiet about it - that you, I, and everybody else - patronize without ever knowing

sorry, i just refuse to get "up in arms" about a cup of coffee. Frankly the way this guys letter is written, it makes me want to shove it in his face by actually disrespecting his beliefs and policy -and going in and buying his coffee while carrying

boycotting his store is really giving him what he wants - that gun owners arent going there

it's just overly silly in my opinion. We've become a nation of "one issue" activists and will get inflamed and up in arms over some of the dumbest things.

just live your life, when shit gets real - we'll all know it and be able to respond in kind (see NRA after Newton)........until then, have a cup of joe......Pike Place is my favorite!

 

[just jk]

having said that - it's entirely your right to be offended by the CEO's letter - entirely your right to be all up in arms or never set foot in a starbucks, etc etc

i fully recognize your right to be bothered by it

 

[Pilgrim]

... sorry, i just refuse to get "up in arms" about a cup of coffee. Frankly the way this guys letter is written, it makes me want to shove it in his face by actually disrespecting his beliefs and policy -and going in and buying his coffee while carrying

boycotting his store is really giving him what he wants - that gun owners arent going there...

^^^ Then we respectfully agree to disagree and that's how it should be between two rational people.

 

[London]

do you have any idea how many anti 2a people are out there?

The issue I have with statements like this is that because a man may be outnumbered (although in this case I don't think so), it is pointless to fight. I'll tell you from experience you'll never know true victory if you only engage the easy battles. The hard ones are the most rewarding.

Not that it's a hard battle to not buy something.

 

[just jk]

Refuse to fight.... The old saying "choose your battles" or "don't fall on every sword"

I don't know whether the 2a crowd is a majority or minority. I'm just saying the other side exists and will continue to exists.

I also refuse to fight over a cup o coffee especially when the man clearly said it wasn't a ban

 

[London]

Link to Story/

Whine whine whine. One setback and the guy wants to hammer everyone on the head. A better solution is to drop Starbucks like a hot sack of shit and move on to greener pastures.

My estimate is that if the open carry movement keeps steaming ahead, guns in public will be as commonplace and unsensational as they are in Israel within a generation. I predict Starbucks is going to feel this when next quarter's profit reports come in.

 

[London]

Refuse to fight.... The old saying "choose your battles" or "don't fall on every sword"

I don't know whether the 2a crowd is a majority or minority. I'm just saying the other side exists and will continue to exists.

I also refuse to fight over a cup o coffee especially when the man clearly said it wasn't a ban

1.) It's a half-ass ban. "We're not going to stop you, but we'd really prefer you don't."

2.) As others have pointed out, his statements are vague enough to be interpreted as a notice of trespass. That should be enough to dissuade anyone interested in flaunting his wishes. It may not be a ban but it is good enough.

3.) Not buying a cup of coffee (fer Chrissakes!) is hardly the same as falling on a sword. Out forefathers gave up life, limb, property, and life savings to fight for freedom. People nowadays can't even give up a cup of coffee. You are free to disagree with me, and free to do business however you wish, but no one who supports companies which make these kinds of decisions will ever convince me they give a shit about freedom beyond the usual empty, toothless lip-service without action.

 

[Hoji]

Whine whine whine. One setback and the guy wants to hammer everyone on the head. A better solution is to drop Starbucks like a hot sack of shit and move on to greener pastures.

My estimate is that if the open carry movement keeps steaming ahead, guns in public will be as commonplace and unsensational as they are in Israel within a generation. I predict Starbucks is going to feel this when next quarter's profit reports come in.

I doubt it.

 

[Pilgrim]

1.) It's a half-ass ban. "We're not going to stop you, but we'd really prefer you don't."

2.) As others have pointed out, his statements are vague enough to be interpreted as a notice of trespass. That should be enough to dissuade anyone interested in flaunting his wishes. It may not be a ban but it is good enough.

3.) Not buying a cup of coffee (fer Chrissakes!) is hardly the same as falling on a sword. Out forefathers gave up life, limb, property, and life savings to fight for freedom. People nowadays can't even give up a cup of coffee. You are free to disagree with me, and free to do business however you wish, but no one who supports companies which make these kinds of decisions will ever convince me they give a shit about freedom beyond the usual empty, toothless lip-service without action.

For the record I agree with you. I've taken this stance on any company who, in my opinion, violates my 2nd Amendment rights. Will it inconvenience me? Yes. Will it make hill of difference to their bottom line? Probably not in and of itself. Will I be ridiculed in some way by others who's opinions vary? Yes, but I don't give damn. Do I believe my actions may contribute to a change in attitude towards our right to bear arms? I hope so, if not in my lifetime maybe in my son's.

In the end, it's up to each of us to choose how much this fight will affect our lives. Withholding my money from the likes of Starbucks, Galaxy Theaters, et al is a choice I'm willing to live with.

 

[TheDan]

I never participated in any of these open carry events, but I did buy Starbucks on the appreciation days. Their CEO is now saying they don't appreciate the appreciation from pro-2A activists. I'm not upset with him at all, but I'm definitely going to stop showing my appreciation. Lots of other places to get some good coffee... like my kitchen and my desk at work