Today is Your Last Chance to comment on ATF41P!

[grumper]

Commented last min. Some of those comments represent large numbers. Anyone read a comment that supported the action? Went though several pages and didn't find one.

I saw a couple of retards supporting it. Basically boiled down to guns are bad, no one should have them. We don't care that it takes 15 months for the approval process no one should be allowed to own guns.

Intellectual dishonesty at its finest. So much for 'common sense' gun control, 'We only want background checks', 'we only want guns registered' (we're TRYING to register our guns you liberal dumbfucks) and all the other total BS shoveled by gun grabbers.

The gun grabbing comments must have been outnumbered by 2000:1 or 3000:1 though.

Watch them trot out the 4 ignorant comments supporting it as justification to ram the change through and suppress the other 9000+ opposing ones.

 

[1slow01Z71]

10K when there is perhaps 50K in the queue is pathetic.

Id venture to guess that the ratio of nfa items pending per person is atleast 2 to 1. Ive got 9 pending and many others have even more than myself. I bet there is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1X,XXX people who own the current 50k in queue. Theres very few people I know with just one NFA item.

I think over 9k is pretty admirable given the indifferent attitude many people have these days.

 

[Renegade]

Id venture to guess that the ratio of nfa items pending per person is atleast 2 to 1. Ive got 9 pending and many others have even more than myself. I bet there is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1X,XXX people who own the current 50k in queue. Theres very few people I know with just one NFA item.

I think over 9k is pretty admirable given the indifferent attitude many people have these days.

You forgot the hundreds of thousands of NFA items already owned. So 9K out of hundreds of thousands of NFA owners sucks IMO.

 

[IXLR8]

It is not looking good for the home team... Apathy loses rights.
SC, I truly appreciate your efforts in this matter.

 

[cbigclarke]

I'm outraged. I don't even own any nfa items and signed up.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[1slow01Z71]

You forgot the hundreds of thousands of NFA items already owned. So 9K out of hundreds of thousands of NFA owners sucks IMO.

I doubt there are 100s of thousands of owners and you have to discount all the jackasses who are sitting on machine guns as nest eggs that want this crap to go through so their investment stays valuable. Who knows what actual number of NFA item owners there are out there and its really irrelevant but I believe 9K is a decent showing IMO. The comments all of us made don't count for shit though so the actual number is really irrelevant. At the end of the day its going to be the companies in the industry and folks like the Silencer Shop that will bear the burden of fighting this in court. I very seriously doubt this administration gives two shit about what we say in the comments. This battle will be won in the legal system unfortunately. At least if they do go ahead with the rule change as soon as a lawsuit is filed there will be an injunction and it will stop the rule change while it goes through the legal process.

 

[Renegade]

I doubt there are 100s of thousands of owners

Doubt whatever you want. I have been doing NFA for 30 years, I have 2500+ unique customers alone in just the last 6 years as an FFL/SOT, most of them silencer buyers. I think ATF pegged it at 350-400K last time I saw.

you have to discount all the jackasses who are sitting on machine guns as nest eggs that want this crap to go through so their investment stays valuable.

If this goes through, their collections are going to drop in value significantly. Simple Supply/Demand. Supply is pretty much constant, Demand drops by 80% = MG owners is phucked.

At the end of the day its going to be the companies in the industry and folks like the Silencer Shop that will bear the burden of fighting this in court.

I doubt it will be fought [successfully] in court. All prior attempts to fight CLEO in court have failed. No reason to think the next one will be any better. Most of the big names I have seen - NSSF, NFATCA, Silencer Shop, did not reject 41P outright, but offered their own gon control versions a little less stringent. We NFA owners are not even on the same page sadly. No word from MFGS such as KAC, AAC, GemTech, SilencerCo, Surefire, etc., if t hey even submitted a comment.

 

[1slow01Z71]

Doubt whatever you want. I have been doing NFA for 30 years, I have 2500+ unique customers alone in just the last 6 years as an FFL/SOT, most of them silencer buyers. I think ATF pegged it at 350-400K last time I saw.



If this goes through, their collections are going to drop in value significantly. Simple Supply/Demand. Supply is pretty much constant, Demand drops by 80% = MG owners is $#@!ed.



I doubt it will be fought [successfully] in court. All prior attempts to fight CLEO in court have failed. No reason to think the next one will be any better. Most of the big names I have seen - NSSF, NFATCA, Silencer Shop, did not reject 41P outright, but offered their own gon control versions a little less stringent. We NFA owners are not even on the same page sadly. No word from MFGS such as KAC, AAC, GemTech, SilencerCo, Surefire, etc., if t hey even submitted a comment.

That's insane that you alone have had that many separate customers. Didn't realize they estimate it to be that many.

I wonder just how many percentage wise this will effect if the CLEO deal goes through...

THe prior CLEO legal battles have been lost because there are other routes that can be taken(trust) and the rule didn't directly effect state trust law. This rule change will be taking away states rights essentially and changing over two centuries of trust law. That's how it was explained to me by Mark at Silencer Shop. SS did reject 41P outright according to my talks with Mark and Dave, I have not read their 80 page response since I had a direct conversation with them about it so I cant attest to what is in their novel of a response.

AAC did respond and even had a $100 off sale through this month I believe, Silencerco did respond and I believe that may be part of what got one of the founders fired. Im not sure about the others, but one thing is clear the ASA did nothing to "circle the wagons" when this came out. I was of the mind that their whole reason for existence was to advocate for this industry and get everyone reading off the same sheet of music but it seems they did nothing to further the cause. THey didn't even come out with form letters until a week before the comment period ended. Hell when the Wall Street Journal asked for Knox Williams(president of the ASA) comment on this, his response was "decline to comment". WTF is that?! Youre the face of the industry, you make all these pretty youtube videos showing how youre fighting for silencers yet when the single biggest threat to this industry comes up you have no fucking comment to a major publication writing an article on this? The NFA community is so poorly organized its not even funny.

Ill never understand why the companies who have their livelyhoods on the line were not more vocal. Sure they can retain attorneys to fight the legalities, but getting exposure for this nonsense is the best way to raise awareness and no one really did that except for a select few of NFA attorneys and Silencer Shop.

KAC and Surefire don't care because their client is the military and LE, civilians don't matter one bit to them. Hopefully they both go the way of HK but I don't see that happening.

Downright sad IMO.

 

[Sugar Land]

Maybe they feel like this is a bullshit deal and is never gonna happen. Not what people want to hear but it is a possibility. IMO of course .

 

[Shorts]

KAC and Surefire don't care because their client is the military and LE, civilians don't matter one bit to them. Hopefully they both go the way of HK but I don't see that happening.

Downright sad IMO.

Yep. And they better watch out or they'll go the way of Colt putting all their eggs in the govt basket. I think for so long Colt got comfy with the govt contracts that they forgot about the civilian market. Now that FN has the contract Colt has been forced to crawl back to the civilian world. After years of neglect they have things to make up for.



Anyway, ran across this article today about the 41P and NFATCA:
Lawyers? comments raise troubling questions about ATF and NFA collector?s group - National gun rights | Examiner.com

 

[breakingcontact]

Where will/would the legal battle on this be fought? 10th District Court? Did the administration/ATF mess this up by handling it so clumsily that they wont be able to impose the rule changes?

*this is why the courts being stacked with those who dont uphold the Constitution and rule of law should be deeply upsetting to all freedom loving Americans.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Got this in an email from an LGS just now:

"BATFE 41P LEGISLATION TO GO INTO EFFECT MAY 1st"

"MEANING NO CLASS III PURCHASES WILL BE APPROVED IN HARRIS COUNTY IF THIS GOES INTO EFFECT!"



Is this true?

 

[subseashooter]

I just got probably the same email. Did some digging because I hadn't heard about this. Found the link below, posted last October....

Gun Trust Lawyer®, David Goldman Comments to ATF 41P ? NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog

I came to ask the same questions.....

 

[Younggun]

My understanding was that they pushed back making the decision until May.

Seems one of the well versed NFA folks on here would have mentioned it if it had already been decided.

Last comments I heard were posted by Jeremy at SilencerShop IIRC (sorry if I'm got that wrong) stating that they didn't expect it to pass due to all the time and effort that has been put in to the Eforms system.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Also that May would be the absolute earliest but most probably late summer for any decision (is what I heard)

 

[subseashooter]

So....nothing to sweat just yet....?????

 

[breakingcontact]

Last time I was in silencershop they were under the impression it would just keep being pushed backed. That was Dec 2014.

Im not sure if anything official has changed. If so...will have to shift funds directly to get 2 more cans.

What do our NFA experts here say? (Ill ask my friend right now. He works in an NFA shop)

 

[Joshua - Capitol Armory]

It's pushed back until May.

There's a very small chance it could happen, although I really suspect it will be pushed back again.

If you're on the fence about something, it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and get what you need... however, we're not in any sort of 'panic mode' just yet as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Renegade]

At SHOT they said early summer.

Didn't get email, but if it does not originate at ATF it is Gun Store Sales tactics.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

So based on history would it probably grandfather pending submissions?