30.06 at the Pasadena Gun Show, seriously?

[Dash Riprock]

Exactly.

30.06 is not valid at gun show, it not valid on govt property, and even if it were valid when checker gives you the gun back to enter show, you get "effective consent" to carry on the property.

It's not the fact that it's a gun show that makes the 30.06 invalid, it's the fact that it's held in a government owned building. A gun show in a privately owned facility can post all it wants, in which case we can choose to go or not, but there's no question as to the legality of it.

I might be mistaken because I've never carried anything into a gun show, but I thought the LEO's inspected all the weapons to make sure they are clear and then put a zip-tie on them to prevent firing. You're not allowed to reload your weapon and stick it in your IWB holster after the LEO gives it back to you.

 

[Dash Riprock]

Not at the Pasadena show, one officer just asked to check my pistol (that I had for sale) and if I had any other guns or ammunition. I could have easily walked in with my carry weapon.

Maybe so, but if you get outed for whatever reason I assume you're going to be asked to leave at a minimum if not outright arrested. I also assume LEO's working a gun show probably know how to ID a concealed weapon. As I mentioned earlier, I can't afford to risk it, so I don't, but it doesn't make it right.

 

[Bithabus]

It's not the fact that it's a gun show that makes the 30.06 invalid, it's the fact that it's held in a government owned building. A gun show in a privately owned facility can post all it wants, in which case we can choose to go or not, but there's no question as to the legality of it.

You don't need a CHL to carry a handgun at a gunshow

I might be mistaken because I've never carried anything into a gun show, but I thought the LEO's inspected all the weapons to make sure they are clear and then put a zip-tie on them to prevent firing. You're not allowed to reload your weapon and stick it in your IWB holster after the LEO gives it back to you.

What do you mean by "not allowed"?

 

[Dash Riprock]

No statute prevents a government owned location from posting signs. The ONLY question one need consider is enforceability.

Fair point, but that speaks to a problem in the statute that needs to be corrected. It should be outright illegal for a city/county to post a 30.06 sign where it's not valid, and there should be some enforcement powers given to DPS or the AG or something. The public shouldn't have to speculate whether a sign is valid.

Also, while unlikely, it's possible that the building falls under one of the exceptions (i.e. a court office in the building where the gun show is held, or an official meeting, or a professional sporting event is going on) and the 30.06 is in fact valid, in which case if you carry past it on the assumption that it's unenforceable, you could well be in violation.

 

[Dash Riprock]

You don't need a CHL to carry a handgun at a gunshow

Not sure I follow. I'm talking about carrying your loaded firearm concealed on your person, not an unloaded pistol that you purchased at the show or brought to sell. What am I missing?

What do you mean by "not allowed"?

I mean in violation of the admittedly unenforceable 30.06 sign. Go to a show, declare your concealed handgun to the LEO's, have them empty it, and reload it in front of them. Then come back and tell us what happens.

 

[Bithabus]

Not sure I follow. I'm talking about carrying your loaded firearms concealed on your person, not an unloaded pistol that you purchased at the show or brought to sell. What am I missing?

people can carry handguns at gun shows. You are not carrying on authority of GC 411 h

I mean in violation of the admittedly unenforceable 30.06 sign. Go to a show, declare your concealed handgun to the LEO's have them empty it, and reload it in front of them. Then come back and tell us what happens.

Why would you reload in front of them? In any case, being arrested does not mean you broke the law. I share your concern that poorly informed Officers might arrest someone for "violating" these straw signs.

 

[rcrecelius]

Ok I give up, been following this thread for a while...what is a 30.06 sign?

 

[JADB]

Ok I give up, been following this thread for a while...what is a 30.06 sign?

Let me google that for you

Sorry, been wanting to use this again lately.

 

[txinvestigator]

Fair point, but that speaks to a problem in the statute that needs to be corrected. It should be outright illegal for a city/county to post a 30.06 sign where it's not valid, and there should be some enforcement powers given to DPS or the AG or something. The public shouldn't have to speculate whether a sign is valid.

Also, while unlikely, it's possible that the building falls under one of the exceptions (i.e. a court office in the building where the gun show is held, or an official meeting, or a professional sporting event is going on) and the 30.06 is in fact valid, in which case if you carry past it on the assumption that it's unenforceable, you could well be in violation.

Some of those events and locations firearms are off limits, period. No gun show could be held there.

 

[smtimelevi]

Pretty ridiculous all the technicalities. We need to do something about the city or county posting unenforceable signs and using Police to enforce them. 2013 baby!

 

[Renegade]

It's not the fact that it's a gun show that makes the 30.06 invalid, it's the fact that it's held in a government owned building. A gun show in a privately owned facility can post all it wants, in which case we can choose to go or not, but there's no question as to the legality of it.

You do not need a CHL to carry at a gun show. And a person with one is NOT carrying under CHL authority, so the signs do not apply. This is why folks without a CHL can still carry a handgun to/at/from a gun show and not be in violation of 46.02. There is also no distinction between loaded or unloaded, concealed or unconcealed when carrying there.

No different than a gun shop. A NON-CHL can buy a handgun at the gun shop, walk out with it on or about their person, go home and no crime is committed by that carry. Gun can be loaded or unloaded, concealed or unconcealed.

 

[Renegade]

I mean in violation of the admittedly unenforceable 30.06 sign. Go to a show, declare your concealed handgun to the LEO's, have them empty it, and reload it in front of them. Then come back and tell us what happens.

Sounds like threatening behaviour that has nothing to do with lawful carry.

 

[Dash Riprock]

Renegade just lost me. I'm done with this. Good luck and let us know how that test case turns out.

 

[Gramps]

I understand the legality of the sign now and do appreciate the responses. However, I will not carry into a gun show again, hell might not go back to one unless there is a real need. My point is the sign is bullshit, poor business practice by a gun show promoter(s), and I want to make it a campaign to get rid of the 30.06 signs.


Edit - Hell may devote weekends to boycott/"occupy" the gun shows with 30.06 signs, stand out front with a big dang sign stating how they are posting unenforceable 30.06's.

 

[matefrio]

Folks, if you can't understand, navigate and use the rights we currently retain and notice when they are unlawfully opressed...how can we fight to expand those rights to the full extent of the 2nd Amendment?

In fact what basis do we have to ask for more rights if we are making up and subjecting ourselves to our own restrictive laws and norms that are more oppressive than current laws?

 

[tmd11111]

If you don't agree with it take them to court. With a good lawyer I'm sure you'll win but the question is, will it be worth the cost? Unless your a lawyer representing yourself of have a lawyer buddy doing it pro bono, its going to cost you a mint. To what, prove a point you were right?

 

[matefrio]

If you don't agree with it take them to court. With a good lawyer I'm sure you'll win but the question is, will it be worth the cost? Unless your a lawyer representing yourself of have a lawyer buddy doing it pro bono, its going to cost you a mint. To what, prove a point you were right?

Take them to court for what? Having a sign posted that isn't' worth the cardboard it's printed on? Freedom of press\ speech may cover them, they can say what ever they want to but it might as well be a ghost buster sign.

No, to prove your free and the sacrifices of our for fathers were not in vain.

I carry where the law states I may carry. I ignore unlawful signs.

 

[Renegade]

Renegade just lost me. I'm done with this. Good luck and let us know how that test case turns out.

Bithabus was right. Most people do not understand this. You are one of them. We tried to explain it to you civily, but you resorted to silly scenarios about loading a gun in front of police officer and then running off with hurt feelings. Feel free to not carry where you can legally carry do to your own ignorance. You probably think it is illegal to carry in churches, amusement parks and hospitals too.

Bye.

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

So, lol...any word back from the email that was sent?

 

[Dash Riprock]

Bithabus was right. Most people do not understand this. You are one of them. We tried to explain it to you civily, but you resorted to silly scenarios about loading a gun in front of police officer and then running off with hurt feelings. Feel free to not carry where you can legally carry do to your own ignorance. You probably think it is illegal to carry in churches, amusement parks and hospitals too.

Bye.

I'm a big boy, I don't get my feelings hurt. I assume you're making some point about "carrying" merchandise in a gun store/gun show, as if the gun you bought would otherwise magically fly to your home by itself. Maybe there are specific laws dealing with this, I don't know. Maybe we just rely on common sense to establish a reasonable expectation that yeah, you'll be physically "carrying" guns in and around a gun store/show, because that's what they're in the business of selling. In any event, it's beside the point.

The point is that you have signs informing CHL holders that they are not allowed to carry concealed in a particular establishment that a plain reading of statute would appear to be invalid. However, you also have armed uniformed LEO's at the entrance asking if you have any weapons on you, and then checking and clearing and disabling said weapons. It's not like walking past a gun busters sign at Billy Bob's Bait Shop with your Glock in your pocket. In this case, you don't really have the option of ignoring what you consider to be an invalid sign. If you truthfully answer the LEO's question, he'll take and clear your weapon. Sure, you can then "carry" it unloaded around in the gun show, but that's not what most people think of when they think of "licensed concealed carry". If you ignore his question, or answer untruthfully, or reload your weapon thereafter, you risk arrest if you are outed.

Maybe you're in a position where you're personally willing and able to take that risk and fight the good fight in court. I'm not. Again, I wish you the best should you choose to become the test case. I will comply with the 30.06 sign under protest until such time as we can get some teeth into the statutes that would provide for enforcement powers against cities and counties who blatantly flaunt the law.

btw, this isn't just gun shows that are the problem. There are lots of local government offices around the state that post invalid 30.06 signs, Austin City Hall being one of them. It is wrong and it needs to stop.