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.40sw vs: .45acp power and stopping power

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  • 98f150

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    Where can I find out more information on the advantages that the .40sw has over the .45acp.
    Texas SOT
     

    idleprocess

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    The differences in "stopping power" between the most common automatic pistol calibers are not so great as their supporters (and detractors) would have you think. 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45ACP are all fairly close in terms of kinetic energy and wounding potential (even the more niche calibers like .357SIG and 10mm aren't very far from their more common brethren).

    .40 S&W is lighter and faster than .45ACP, but the overall energy levels are quite close. The average .40S&W round will go further than the average .45ACP round. .40S&W rounds are less expensive than .45ACP. Magazine capacity is greater for a given volume with .40S&W. Recoil with .40S&W is often quite "snappy" compared to .45ACP.

    Choosing a pistol caliber boils mostly down to personal preference. Handle and fire as many pistols as you can before deciding on one.
     

    philbo

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    Stopping power depends much more on shot placement than caliber. You may have a larger margin of error with a 45 than a 22, but if you can't make hits to the central nervous system, you're not likely to immediately stop anyone with either.

    i.e. We've all seen by now the infamous DEA agent who shot himself in the foot with his own weapon, a Glock 40. Even at point blank range this didn't incapacitate the agent who went on trying to teach.

    In short, choose a caliber you can shoot well and practice. That's the secret to stopping power.

    This will tell the story and you can test your own loads.
    Taylor Knockout Value

    While there are many formulas that try to predict stopping power, they're not very realistic in practice. To show the fallacy of the Taylor Knockout Value for instance, take a 10 pound bowling ball rolled at a leisurely pace and see what type of big game it's predicted to stop.
    (10 lbs=70,0000 grains. Velocity= a leisurely 10 feet per second. Caliber would be 10 inches. TKV=1,000) Is a slow rolling balling ball really more effective than a 50 BMG that has a TKV of 139?
     

    idleprocess

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    I noticed that the TKV seemed to totally discount kinetic energy, favoring bullet diameter and mass over the exponentially greater velocity component...
     

    TAZ

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    About the only advantages that the 40 has over the 45 is size and capacity. The rest of the argument wrt stopping power and such are mumbo jumbo. Shot placement will always trump the mythical stopping power of any wonder round.

    Base your decision on your ability to shoot the gun accurately and quickly, not a set pf published stats.
     

    Old Man of the Mountain

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    I noticed that the TKV seemed to totally discount kinetic energy, favoring bullet diameter and mass over the exponentially greater velocity component...

    A low mass bullet is easier to propel, which also means that it is easier to stop. Light weight bullets do not penetrate as well as heavier bullets. If you don't have penetration, you don't have dependable stopping power.
     

    Old Man of the Mountain

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    About the only advantages that the 40 has over the 45 is size and capacity. The rest of the argument wrt stopping power and such are mumbo jumbo. Shot placement will always trump the mythical stopping power of any wonder round.

    Base your decision on your ability to shoot the gun accurately and quickly, not a set pf published stats.

    I have heard that a .40 will penetrate better, that a car door might stop a .45 JHP, but will not stop a .40 JHP.

    On the other hand, a .45 FMJ will probably penetrate a car door just fine, and it is large enough that you don't need any expansion for man stopping.
     

    TAZ

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    I have heard that a .40 will penetrate better, that a car door might stop a .45 JHP, but will not stop a .40 JHP.

    On the other hand, a .45 FMJ will probably penetrate a car door just fine, and it is large enough that you don't need any expansion for man stopping.


    Why exactly would one be shooting at car doors?
     

    40Arpent

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    Why exactly would one be shooting at car doors?

    I recall reading a gun rag article when the .40s&w was first introduced. It spoke of this round being able to penetrate a car door, and how that made the round attractive to law enforcement agencies (for those times when forced to shoot a bad guy who was behind a car door). I think that may be where a lot of the "car door" crap came from.
     

    Old Man of the Mountain

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    Why exactly would one be shooting at car doors?

    Why do criminal thugs commit drive by shootings?

    Why do criminal thugs drive up to a victim trapped in traffic and car jack or murder them for their car?

    That sort of thing has been going on here in Texas since the 1980's that I know of.

    Why not put an end to such behavior?
     

    idleprocess

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    A low mass bullet is easier to propel, which also means that it is easier to stop. Light weight bullets do not penetrate as well as heavier bullets. If you don't have penetration, you don't have dependable stopping power.

    I know everyone loves the heavy (and slow!) .45ACP and attributes numerous physics-defying acts of carnage to it, but the level of performance is fairly similar in gelatin and in the real world to the other common pistol rounds (9mm, .40 S&W, .45ACP - all have similar kinetic energy at the muzzle) - suggesting that there is a decent correlation between kinetic energy and wounding potential so long as you don't sacrifice too much mass or velocity at the expense of the other.

    .357mag is widely considered a reliable man-stopper and its sole advantage over 9mm is a few hundred additional FPS of muzzle velocity (bullet weights and diameters being extremely similar).

    Kinetic energy isn't everything (bullet type/design, bullet fragmentation/expansion/yawing, shot placement, the particular physiology of the target, etc count a hell of a lot), but in general the more of it delivered to a target, the more damage a round can inflict.
     

    Old Man of the Mountain

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    Notice that in this side by side comparison of terminal bullet performance, the 9 mm distance is ok, but the disruption does not come close to a good performing round.

    That is why criminals have been mortally wounded, but not stopped by 9 mm rounds.

    A determined criminal thug with a knife will take out a Police Officer with a 9 mm before the thug drops from the 9 mm wounds.

    The rest of the projectiles are stoppers.

    Wound them or stop them, the choice is yours!

    P.S. I also believe that the main reason that the light little 9 mm bullets look ok on this test is because they did not hit any hard substance, like bone. A heavier bullet hitting bone does not stop as quickly as a light 9 mm bullet will.
     

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    TAZ

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    Why do criminal thugs commit drive by shootings?

    Why do criminal thugs drive up to a victim trapped in traffic and car jack or murder them for their car?

    That sort of thing has been going on here in Texas since the 1980's that I know of.

    Why not put an end to such behavior?

    Guess I should have elaborated my question a bit better. I am definitely in favor of using lethal force to defend oneself or those around you. Why shoot through a car door when there is a window right above it or air/legs right below it. If your attacker is using a car door for cover and you cant see them, pulling the trigger is not a good idea.
     
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