.410 for Home Defense

[Steve_In_29]

Interesting thread. My only issue with the .410 is that a 20 guage can do everything and and more (with some more recoil...but not much).
And an AR can do it all better with virtually no recoil.

Not disputing the 20G is better in general but it is also heavier and has APPRECIABLY more recoil then the .410. In the particular instance I provided (4"10"/95lb/60+yo wife) the 20G is not an option. She owns a 20G semi-auto youth model and it is still too much gun for her. Though even if the 20G was an option it doesn't make the .410 any less lethal or viable in an HD situation.

I dispute the AR being a better weapon though and is still too heavy for her. Each .410 round sends FIVE 70Gr projectiles down range (350Gr total) where the AR sends ONE 55/62Gr projectile. Sorry but 5 pellets that are each larger then a single 5.56 bullet are going to hit harder and with MUCH less chance of over penetrating. Even with the relatively lightweight AR weight is still a factor and her .410 weighs 5.25 pounds which is roughly a third less then the average 8ish pound loaded and accessorized AR does.

To shoot girly 5.56 she has a KelTec SU16CA that stock weighs 4.4 pounds and doesn't crap where it eats (piston operated).

 

[Texas42]

The lethality of rifle rounds is much more than pistol rounds, which is what you are shooting. A projectile at 1100-1300 fps does not compare apples to apples to a bullet running 3000fps. A .223 can actually penetrate through fewer layers of sheet rock.

Yes, an AR with a 30 round magazine will weigh more than a gun with 5+1 capacity which was designed as an expert bird gun. As someone who has short stroked a shotgugn, my AR with its direct inpingment system is more reliable than the kel tec and the pump gun. A 16" or 14.5" with a light barrel and either a DD A1.5 iron site or a micro aimpoint is not a heavy gun. 8 friggen pounds loaded without trying hard, and a couple inches shorter.

There is a reason police have phased shotties out. Having multiple projectiles is a liability as much as benefit.

Yes, a .410 caliber shotgun is lethal. I would use one if I needed to. I think a rifle in .223, 7.62x9, 300 blackout, or 6.8 spc would beat it in spades in almost every catagory and sensario except cost. And with the low price of ARs these days, that is less and less.

 

[Charlie]

Whatever works best for the individual is what should be used. Handguns are fine, especially revolvers, in close quarters such as in a house of apartment, IMO. Pump guns are generally pretty damn reliable weapons. A .410 with the right ammo would work well inside a house. Just my two bits.

 

[Steve_In_29]

The lethality of rifle rounds is much more than pistol rounds, which is what you are shooting. A projectile at 1100-1300 fps does not compare apples to apples to a bullet running 3000fps. A .223 can actually penetrate through fewer layers of sheet rock.

Pistol round power maybe BUT it's the equivalent of FIVE pistol rounds hitting at once.

Yes, an AR with a 30 round magazine will weigh more than a gun with 5+1 capacity which was designed as an expert bird gun. As someone who has short stroked a shotgugn, my AR with its direct inpingment system is more reliable than the kel tec and the pump gun. A 16" or 14.5" with a light barrel and either a DD A1.5 iron site or a micro aimpoint is not a heavy gun. 8 friggen pounds loaded without trying hard, and a couple inches shorter.

So because YOU short stroked a shotgun it is somehow the gun's fault? So by that logic if someone doesn't get their mag seated all the way in an AR and it fails to chamber a round and then drops out as the trigger is pulled it means the AR is an unreliable POS?

I don't think you will find many people jumping on your "a pump shotgun is unreliable" bandwagon. With brass cased ammo my wife's KelTec is 100% reliable after well over 1000 rounds. Even with the Russian stuff, as long as I give the chamber a quick scrub every 200 rounds or so it keeps chugging along.

Yes "8 friggen pounds" and as I pointed out 8 is too much for some people. 5+1 is more then enough in a HD situation unless you are a crack dealer or expecting a raid by the Feds, as statistics show that by far most HD situations are resolved after one or two shots.

There is a reason police have phased shotties out. Having multiple projectiles is a liability as much as benefit.

The increase in encountering body armor is a bigger reason and (initially at least) the free mil-surp rifles. Though I do agree on the "multi-projectile liability" part. However I doubt there is much worry about a stray pellet when the .410 groups like this at 15 yards. All 5 pellets are in a roughly 1.5" circle (the upper left hole is the wad). At 7 yds the pellets were almost in a single hole.

Yes, a .410 caliber shotgun is lethal. I would use one if I needed to. I think a rifle in .223, 7.62x9, 300 blackout, or 6.8 spc would beat it in spades in almost every catagory and sensario except cost. And with the low price of ARs these days, that is less and less.

Well it's nice of you to agree with the facts about the lethality of the .410. So with that out of the way what was the point of coming into a shotgun thread, on the Shotgun Forum shouting "rifle"?

If it makes you feel any better after my .357 and 12G pump, the go to weapon is a Saiga in 7.62x39 and if we are fending off the zombie hordes my wife will be using her EOTech equipped, KelTec and 30 round mags. My 17+ years in the Corps was enough to show me I didn't want an AR at any price and since we have veered into discussing off-topic weapons you also couldn't pay me to take an M9.

As to the price thing...seen any $300 dollar ARs lately?