83(R) HB 700 - Open Carry Bill

[kusai]

Would OC proudly.

 

[preyn2]

First, Open Constitutional Carry is what I believe in and would prefer. Second, I believe this bill is a huge step in the right direction. Having said those two things:

I would prefer to remove any reference to "at least dual points of resistance".

Hope I have time to sit with everybody at Rudy's tomorrow.

phil

 

[HarleyMechanix]

Great! Now what is the chance this will actually pass? I'm embarrassed as a native Texan that we don't have this already. Also, this might just be semantics but, "at least dual points of resistance"? Well all my holsters have at least two sides and they retain my pistol. So I dont see that as an issue.

 

[RetArmySgt]

So would a holster with a thumb snap meet the requirement?

 

[majormadmax]

So would a holster with a thumb snap meet the requirement?

Your holster is Level I, which has a simple thumb-break device that must be unclipped in order to draw the weapon.

A Level ll holster example is one where a thumb-break is released then the pistol must be moved (rocked forward or rearwards) in the holster to clear some form of internal locking device before it can be drawn.

More here: http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Conway/duty_holster_considerations.htm

That requirement is excessive in my opinion.

 

[RetArmySgt]

The most restrictive holster i have is a tight leather pancake holster with a thumb snap.

 

[txinvestigator]

Great! Now what is the chance this will actually pass? I'm embarrassed as a native Texan that we don't have this already. Also, this might just be semantics but, "at least dual points of resistance"? Well all my holsters have at least two sides and they retain my pistol. So I dont see that as an issue.

incorrect about the holster. The bill's language references a level 2 holster.

 

[XinTX]

Not sure this the the right path. The point I see is that it just seems to take the CC laws and apply them to OC. I'd rather see a separate bill that does not touch the CC at all. A lot of the CHLers see it going down like this if a bill like this passes:
1: CC laws extended to OC
2: People start open carrying. I have no issue with this, but a lot of the bed wetters do. Now they see people carrying 'scary' guns in public. They wet their diapers, call every LEO they can find, call the media, etc.
3: The bed wetters complain to the stores (who now have LEO and news trucks in their parking lots). Business owners, not wanting the negative publicity, all begin posting 30.06 sings.
4: Now there are few businesses that are not posted.

I'd prefer a separate section, but require a unique placard to prohibit OC. If one sign can prohibit CC and OC, I think we'll see a LOT more postings. What has helped prevent this so far is that the bed wetters likely don't recognize a concealed handgun. Out in the open, they'll be flooding the floors. Cleanup on aisle 9.

 

[J. Fred]

I can understand your concern. I haven't read or heard of these same problems with the bed wetters in on Oklahoma. I refuse to believe that those folks north of the river are more mature than us Texans.

There are bound to be some teething pains but so what ?

 

[XinTX]

Then one other point.

If OC and CC are completely different sections, the bed wetters would have to attack each section individually. If all carry is under one section, we'd essentially be one court ruling from losing said rights. If we have to fight two fights, so should the bed wetters.

 

[txinvestigator]

I can understand your concern. I haven't read or heard of these same problems with the bed wetters in on Oklahoma. I refuse to believe that those folks north of the river are more mature than us Texans.

There are bound to be some teething pains but so what ?

While this is third hand information, I have spoken to 4 people who have been to OK since the law went into effect. None of them saw anyone carrying openly. Not sure what that means. lol

 

[RCK1999]

Although I'm not adverse to the level retention requirement, has anyone actually gone shopping for a level 2 not sized for a full-size gun? There seem to be plenty of options for a G17, but looks like I could be SOL for an SR9C, LC9, etc.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I'd really like two separate 30.06 signs. I think it relieves some of the concerns about more signs going up that also bar concealed carry, while giving property owners more say in exactly what they want / don't want happening on their property.

I think separate signage is a win-win.

 

[matefrio]

I have spent a lot of time in Arizona over the past decade. Despite the fact that OC is legal there, the only time I've seen anyone OCing was out in the desert. You don't see it in Phoenix or Tucson or even in Tombstone (except for the cowboy actors).

The motivation for that clause in the law is based on the standards for LEOs. One of the major risks associated with OC is someone trying to pull your gun out of your holster. The meme about "someone will take your gun away from you and kill you with it" came from problems cops had with that exact thing happening during arrests. I've only found one instance where someone carrying concealed had someone grab their gun away from them, and it was after the gun was drawn, not when the gun was in the holster - but weapon retention becomes a very valid concern with OC.

Even if a retention holster was not required by law, I would (and will) recommend that anyone that chooses to OC use one.
OC is a dumb idea from a tactics perspective. It's great if you want to get stared at in public, make liberals around you uncomfortable, create opportunities to meet cops as you are out and about on your daily activities, and deprive yourself of the element of surprise in any situation where a firearm might be needed. I still support the law passing - people should have the option, since the only person that's actually going to benefit or suffer as a result of OC is the person who chooses to carry that way.

Karl
rehn@krtraining.com
KR Training - Central Texas' best firearms training school

Again, Open Carry is about the right not the tactics involved. Let folks have the freedom to choose how they open carry. We aren't trying to regain rights for situations we face today but those we might encounter under tyranny.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I have spent a lot of time in Arizona over the past decade. Despite the fact that OC is legal there, the only time I've seen anyone OCing was out in the desert. You don't see it in Phoenix or Tucson or even in Tombstone (except for the cowboy actors).

The motivation for that clause in the law is based on the standards for LEOs. One of the major risks associated with OC is someone trying to pull your gun out of your holster. The meme about "someone will take your gun away from you and kill you with it" came from problems cops had with that exact thing happening during arrests. I've only found one instance where someone carrying concealed had someone grab their gun away from them, and it was after the gun was drawn, not when the gun was in the holster - but weapon retention becomes a very valid concern with OC.

Even if a retention holster was not required by law, I would (and will) recommend that anyone that chooses to OC use one.
OC is a dumb idea from a tactics perspective. It's great if you want to get stared at in public, make liberals around you uncomfortable, create opportunities to meet cops as you are out and about on your daily activities, and deprive yourself of the element of surprise in any situation where a firearm might be needed. I still support the law passing - people should have the option, since the only person that's actually going to benefit or suffer as a result of OC is the person who chooses to carry that way.

Karl
rehn@krtraining.com
KR Training - Central Texas' best firearms training school

I think tactics are highly situationally dependent and we should avoid evaluating OC risks in a vacuum. If you're a LEO confronting a criminal that's entirely different than Jim Bob driving from the lease to the feed store to pickup a couple sacks of deer corn w/ a piece on his hip.

I'm not an expert, but applying the exact same tactics and risk assessment across a verity of situations sounds illogical.

I think it would be more accurate to say that "OC can be a dumb idea from a tactics perspective" rather than "OC is a dumb idea from a tactics perspective"

 

[Stumpy]

Again, Open Carry is about the right not the tactics involved. Let folks have the freedom to choose how they open carry. We aren't trying to regain rights for situations we face today but those we might encounter under tyranny.

winner winner chicken dinner

 

[biglucky]

I have spent a lot of time in Arizona over the past decade. Despite the fact that OC is legal there, the only time I've seen anyone OCing was out in the desert. You don't see it in Phoenix or Tucson or even in Tombstone (except for the cowboy actors).

The motivation for that clause in the law is based on the standards for LEOs. One of the major risks associated with OC is someone trying to pull your gun out of your holster. The meme about "someone will take your gun away from you and kill you with it" came from problems cops had with that exact thing happening during arrests. I've only found one instance where someone carrying concealed had someone grab their gun away from them, and it was after the gun was drawn, not when the gun was in the holster - but weapon retention becomes a very valid concern with OC.

Even if a retention holster was not required by law, I would (and will) recommend that anyone that chooses to OC use one.
OC is a dumb idea from a tactics perspective. It's great if you want to get stared at in public, make liberals around you uncomfortable, create opportunities to meet cops as you are out and about on your daily activities, and deprive yourself of the element of surprise in any situation where a firearm might be needed. I still support the law passing - people should have the option, since the only person that's actually going to benefit or suffer as a result of OC is the person who chooses to carry that way.

Karl
rehn@krtraining.com
KR Training - Central Texas' best firearms training school

Welcome to the forum Karl.

Trust me when I say we could argue all day the virtues of open v. concealed carry. That is not what this issue is really about. I personally have seen people carrying openly around down town Phoenix the last few times I have been there.

I personally welcome open carry and think that any kind of retention requirement in the law is a bad idea. I would "Open carry" a lot probably. It would allow me to use an OWB holster like a raven. There would be no worry of anyone taking my gun because they would still have to get their hand under my shirt and between the grip and my body to draw.

Anyway, I am tired of this debate. No gun owner should be opposed to others practicing their rights however they wish.

 

[warmachine77]

Welcome to the forum Karl.

Trust me when I say we could argue all day the virtues of open v. concealed carry. That is not what this issue is really about. I personally have seen people carrying openly around down town Phoenix the last few times I have been there.

I personally welcome open carry and think that any kind of retention requirement in the law is a bad idea. I would "Open carry" a lot probably. It would allow me to use an OWB holster like a raven. There would be no worry of anyone taking my gun because they would still have to get their hand under my shirt and between the grip and my body to draw.

Anyway, I am tired of this debate. No gun owner should be opposed to others practicing their rights however they wish.

This is where I stand. I may not oc if it passes but I am in no way against any one else's choice to do so.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I have spent a lot of time in Arizona over the past decade. Despite the fact that OC is legal there, the only time I've seen anyone OCing was out in the desert. You don't see it in Phoenix or Tucson or even in Tombstone (except for the cowboy actors).

The motivation for that clause in the law is based on the standards for LEOs. One of the major risks associated with OC is someone trying to pull your gun out of your holster. The meme about "someone will take your gun away from you and kill you with it" came from problems cops had with that exact thing happening during arrests. I've only found one instance where someone carrying concealed had someone grab their gun away from them, and it was after the gun was drawn, not when the gun was in the holster - but weapon retention becomes a very valid concern with OC.

Even if a retention holster was not required by law, I would (and will) recommend that anyone that chooses to OC use one.
OC is a dumb idea from a tactics perspective. It's great if you want to get stared at in public, make liberals around you uncomfortable, create opportunities to meet cops as you are out and about on your daily activities, and deprive yourself of the element of surprise in any situation where a firearm might be needed. I still support the law passing - people should have the option, since the only person that's actually going to benefit or suffer as a result of OC is the person who chooses to carry that way.

Karl
rehn@krtraining.com
KR Training - Central Texas' best firearms training school

Guys, he's not against the law.

 

[matefrio]

Guys, he's not against the law.

Sure does muddy the water when someone comes in half assed and starts advertising their first post talking about tactics when we're talking about rights.