95% of population should not go to college...

[1911'S 4 Me]

Engineers can drive a train.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Engineers can drive a train.

 

[oldag]

Engineers are never wrong.

Except when they are.

 

[m5215]

95% of population should go on a diet.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

95% of population should go on a diet.

Heyyyyyyyy Heyyyyyyyy dats profilin

 

[Brains]

Your experience is apparently limited in scope. I have had the fortune/misfortune of working in a number of industries. Not just CS.

Since you don't think an engineering degree is required, can you design a 20 story building for Houston? Can you specify the material to use for a storage tank holding steam turbine condensate? Or for a product stream containing hydrogen cyanide? How about designing a transistor? Can you specify the bolt size, material and heat treat for the bolts holding a wind turbine blade to the hub? Designed a jet engine recently?

Your generalization is simply not valid.

Oh holy crap dude. Everyone's experience is limited in scope. Just because someone has not done something, or not earned a college degree for, does not mean they lack the capacity. Folks could absolutely learn how to do all of those things, completely outside of an institution of higher learning, and probably have fun doing it. College is not the only place to gain education and experience, to think so is ignorance. I'm not sure why you've got such a hangup about it, but the fact is people can be, and maybe more frequently than you'd believe, are capable of amazing things without college. A 17 year old kid in Michigan built a working nuclear reactor in his shed.

Engineers are never wrong.

lol .. QFT

In general, I'd agree with that statement. I'm the Director of Engineering at my company, I've worked with some of the best degree-less software and electrical engineers you can imagine for 35 years. I don't give a damn if you've got a degree or not - I want you to be able to design stuff artfully. What makes these guys exceptional, is that they had the smarts, and the drive to learn the knowledge without going to college. That drive and inquisitiveness made them exceptional engineers.

That being said, they are the exception, not the rule. Most engineers (ME, EE, CE) gain a lot of knowledge in college that they probably wouldn't have had the drive to acquire otherwise - I put myself firmly in that category.

I think to some extent, software engineers are fringe to this. I've written a lot of code, and some of the structure of the code of our degreed software engineers makes me cringe.

This is why I don't really think software 'engineering' belongs in the same circles as ME/CE/EE. To me, software tips the scale more towards art than engineering. Some try to speak of software development as a set of instructions, and if you're doing assembly maybe. But high level languages? There's a whole lot of ways to say the same thing.

 

[Axxe55]

Engineers are never wrong.

But they are frequently mistaken!

 

[Lonesome Dove]

I'll add that a lot of college enrollment is just dads penis extension. You can can get the vibes as they brag about it constantly. Then you ask, well what's your kid doing these days. Dad Uh uh well just taking a break for while doesn't know what direction to go in.
You Hmmmmmm!

I'm 60 and know 4 maybe 5 kids that completed college and went on to do as planned. All others not even Close. Parents are still paying for it. Sucks but it's real life situations.

 

[oldag]

Oh holy crap dude. Everyone's experience is limited in scope. Just because someone has not done something, or not earned a college degree for, does not mean they lack the capacity. Folks could absolutely learn how to do all of those things, completely outside of an institution of higher learning, and probably have fun doing it. College is not the only place to gain education and experience, to think so is ignorance. I'm not sure why you've got such a hangup about it, but the fact is people can be, and maybe more frequently than you'd believe, are capable of amazing things without college. A 17 year old kid in Michigan built a working nuclear reactor in his shed.

I never said college was the only place. Quite the opposite. Why don't you read what was posted for a change?

Some folks here, you included, exhibit prejudice against college. I have no prejudice against college or against not attending college. Many vocations are superior to what can be achieved with some college degrees.

Aiming to become a nuclear physicist without college is possible (to use your example). But it is vastly easier with college. And only a few will be capable of doing so without college training.

Demeaning all college degrees because some degrees are of little value is a dangerous prejudice.

Sure there are some idiots with degrees. But I have news for you, there are plenty of idiots who never darkened the university doors as well.

 

[Midlifer]

95% is a bit high but I’d agree that most kids don’t need a university to be financially successful. I’ll also add that everyone needs something beyond HS.

 

[Dimonback]

I wouldn't go so far as 95%, but I'll say that college degrees are way overrated.I dropped out after my freshman year, got into the electrical apprenticeship, and earned my licenses in 6 states, as well as a Master's license. After about a decade on the tools, I turned into a project manager and a general manager, and made better money than most of the engineers designing my projects- as well as taking them back to school on numerous occasions.. Not every one is physically capable, or mechanically inclined, but for some, it's a viable and rewarding alternative.

 

[VNK971]

I enlisted in the Army in 1970, right out of High School, because I didn't want to go to college. After my enlistment I went to a community college full time for a year on VA Benefits until I started really working. After 5 years I decided to return to active duty and an Associates Degree meant I returned as an E-3 instead of an E-2. In 1982 I reenlisted on the college option and got one semester full time. I went to a small college in North Carolina because they offered classes on Ft Bragg. In 1884 I became a Warrant Officer and stayed on Ft Bragg because I was jump qualified in an MOS where it wasn't too common. This allowed me to get enough courses to satisfy the residency requirements. With CLEP tests, and a community college course in Maryland, I got my BS in time for the promotion board to CW3. It took me 19 years to get my degree. College did get me one grade when I returned to active duty and likely helped me get selected for CW3. What the degree was in didn't really matter.

 

[Tnhawk]

A HS education should teach the ability for a student to function as a citizen.
English, math, science, history and civics.

 

[ronbwolf]

Just look at "college grads," as a whole, you have to go to school for 4 years, to get that stupid!

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[Tnhawk]

Some are slow learners.

 

[Axxe55]

Just look at "college grads," as a whole, you have to go to school for 4 years, to get that stupid!

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Not all college grads. Some actually learn a few things. My eldest niece graduated with honors at the top of her class at Texas A&M this year. She's planning on becoming a veterinarian.

My younger niece is planning on attending law school when she graduates in two years from Texas UT.

 

[Axxe55]

A HS education should teach the ability for a student to function as a citizen.
English, math, science, history and civics.

Personally, I think that public schools should stick with these basics and leave out the other crap they are trying or wanting to teach.

 

[SQLGeek]

Not all college grads. Some actually learn a few things. My eldest niece graduated with honors at the top of her class at Texas A&M this year. She's planning on becoming a veterinarian.

My younger niece is planning on attending law school when she graduates in two years from Texas UT.

Good for her! That's a lot of hard schooling and despite what a few in this thread think, not something stupid people are generally capable of. I wish her the best. Does she know what kind of veterinary medicine she wants to practice yet?

 

[Army 1911]

College isn't for everyone and some who go to college aren't ready for it when they graduate high school. For last 40 years there has been no required service to the country. This has created 2 generations of entitled citizens who segregate themselves from the rest of the country by economic standards, education and race. They see little value in those who aren't in their socio-education-economic class.

There has to be a way to change that. We had the draft at one time and it made us all in the same social-economic class. I believe that if service to the nation was required after high school the nation would be bette. Not just military but as aides in non-profit hospitals, teachers' aides in public schools, and any other job that would benefit then nation would be allowed. Make the pay same as the military and make the service at least 500 miles from the home of record. Make their quarters similar to a barracks or college dorm so they would have to socialize with people they normally wouldn't.

Then after their service they can go to college or vocational school or not. It would increase the desire for a good college education in areas that actually contribute to productive careers.

My first year of college was before I was mature enough for it. I knew it but went because my parents expected it. After that year, I dodged the draft by enlisting. That was the best decision of my life. Four years in the Army stationed in Germany and Viet Nam matured me better than college could have. After the Army I went and worked my way through college and appreciated it much more than if I had finished it in four years right after high school.

 

[oldag]

Not all college grads. Some actually learn a few things. My eldest niece graduated with honors at the top of her class at Texas A&M this year. She's planning on becoming a veterinarian.

My younger niece is planning on attending law school when she graduates in two years from Texas UT.

Tougher to get into vet school than med school.

She must be extremely sharp.