Abandon ship! When to leave the US and where to?

[TheDan]

This discussion came up in the mccain-targeting-tea-party thread where AFG said he's going to move to Belize if the GOP doesn't straiten out.

I can understand both sides of the argument. I have cultivated property and life here; I don't want to leave... but there comes a point when it may be inevitable. I know the families that got out of Germany and Russia in the 1920s are very glad they left.

So that begs the question: When is it time to leave, where would you go, and why? I don't really see many viable alternatives.

 

[LOCKHART]

Thomas Jefferson said: "The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time, by the blood of
patriots and tyrants!" Why go anywhere? If we are not gonna fight for the way we live in this
country, then maybe we DO need to move to some 3rd world chitt-hole, and just try to REMEMBER
what this country used to be, huh?

 

[benenglish]

I'll have several thoughts on this as the thread develops but the first is always the same - How much money does a potential emigrant have?

If you have lots of money, you don't need to leave. You can buy your own safety and freedom from pretty much any threat. If you choose to leave, you can live anywhere and simply pay for your freedom. To use just one example that might be pertinent to TGT readers, guns are freely owned by the rich pretty much everywhere. Live in the right part of Italy and you can just walk into a local gun shop, lay a pile of Euros on the counter, and walk out with any machinegun you can imagine. Live in the wrong part of Argentina or Panama and you can do roughly the same, except that the seller will be someone you never want to see again and most of your money will go to paying off the local law enforcement to ignore that fact that you own what you own.

So, should we agree to restrict the thread to considerations that only those who have an upper-middle-class or lower income would need to heed?

 

[breakingcontact]

So, should we agree to restrict the thread to considerations that only those who have an upper-middle-class or lower income would need to heed?

Why in the world would you suggest that?

A huge move like this, a life change like this, wouldnt be just about gun rights.

There may come a day real soon where people are actively persecuted and murdered in this country and historically it will be the gov that carries it out.

Id be better off as a peasant llama herder in Patagonia than getting shot in a ditch here.

 

[Acera]

The rich and famous have plenty of homes overseas that they can escape to......................................you think Bloomberg would stay in NYC if things turned south, or head to Bermuda? Some folks think that the elite might be the targets of a lot of different groups in a crisis.

 

[LOCKHART]

Im not believing what I'm reading on here! Are we gonna give up this easy?
Just let the no-goods that dont work, and just TAKE from all of us, just turn it
over to em, huh? Like I said, I'm not believing I'm seeing this on a gun forum,
of all places! Damn!

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

My family I may move somewhere temporarily...but...I would fight.

 

[breakingcontact]

My family I may move somewhere temporarily...but...I would fight.

Id like to think most of us would and will do all we can. There comes a time to fall back and regroup.

Id like to see us annex parts of northern Mexico.

 

[Younggun]

Im not believing what I'm reading on here! Are we gonna give up this easy?
Just let the no-goods that dont work, and just TAKE from all of us, just turn it
over to em, huh? Like I said, I'm not believing I'm seeing this on a gun forum,
of all places! Damn!

I agree, I can't imagine living anywhere else. But I also can't imagine living here if things were to go far enough south.

The idea of fighting is a bloody and cruel one. Your family would most likely end up in prison while you are away fighting. If not, your children hungry and may or may not have a home to live in.

Does that mean it's not worth fighting, not necessarily. Of course, that is assuming others are actually fighting with you. Nobody knows if people would actually turn out on numbers to fight for what once was.

Then there is the question of what happens after the fight. What kind of leader ends up in power. Just look at this forum to see all the different views of what freedom looks like and who should be aligned with who.

You win the war for freedom, just to embark on a war to decide how much freedom.


Nobody could guess just how things will go if the nation continues on this course, so I don't see the idea of looking at all options as running away. At the very least, I would want my kids to be in a relatively safe place.



Lots of angst over pure speculation.

 

[oldguy]

Im not believing what I'm reading on here! Are we gonna give up this easy?
Just let the no-goods that dont work, and just TAKE from all of us, just turn it
over to em, huh? Like I said, I'm not believing I'm seeing this on a gun forum,
of all places! Damn!

Sad, but I believe many have the thought of looking elsewhere, I would guess 90% of the super wealthy have an escape route, I've suggested to my adult children would be a good idea to have a back up plan, depends on age, wealth but with our current government, open borders, outsourcing, at some point it will get ugly, the question is can we change it before or simply wait until the collapse and rebuilt.

 

[mitchntx]

This discussion came up in the mccain-targeting-tea-party thread where AFG said he's going to move to Belize if the GOP doesn't straiten out.

You sure its not because the ref picked up the flag?

 

[Ole Cowboy]

This discussion came up in the mccain-targeting-tea-party thread where AFG said he's going to move to Belize if the GOP doesn't straiten out.

I can understand both sides of the argument. I have cultivated property and life here; I don't want to leave... but there comes a point when it may be inevitable. I know the families that got out of Germany and Russia in the 1920s are very glad they left.

So that begs the question: When is it time to leave, where would you go, and why? I don't really see many viable alternatives.

1) There aren't any more Texas

2) Discussion among several of my friends always seems to lead to 'better to stay here'. Couple of friends have visited other countries and when they look deep its not as pretty as the flyers show. If you have the coin and can afford a 2nd or 3rd home and live there during the GOOD weather months then the countries welcome you with both arms wide, but when you peel back the layers and say I want to live here full time then you can see a lot of ugly especially if you don't have the coin to live in the 'x-pats' conclaves.

3) I have looked very hard, I have no family, no kids, no grandkids and have looked at other countries. NUMBER 1 problem is GUNS! Were it not for that, there are several places I would be at this time in my life.

 

[benenglish]

A huge move like this, a life change like this, wouldnt be just about gun rights.

The example I gave used gun rights for illustrative purposes only.

Why in the world would you suggest that?

I suggest it because the super-wealthy, historically, will be fine no matter what happens. They can buy their way to safety, if not freedom. They can buy their way to comfort while the world crumbles.

The wealthy have enough options that they've already figured out. My opinion is that discussing them in this thread is a waste of time.

I'm much more interested in addressing what Lockhart has had to say. There's a good heart behind his words and they deserve an answer.

 

[Tejano Scott]

Tag for the butthurt

 

[cbigclarke]

Y'all go on. Me and Vaquero will give them hell to the last round, and a pool of brass.

God Bless Texas

 

[Vaquero]

Should be an enlightening discussion.

Yes, Lockhart has a valid point. Somedays I'm firmly rooted.
Others, I'm just sick of DC and their shit.

Kinda like txi's scenario thread. Just talking about it won't make it happen.

 

[Younggun]

Most honest opinion I can give given that it's pure speculation.

Assuming things did break down, I have an aunt in a good area of Mexico. I would do my best to get my wife and kids there. If I felt I could make a difference I would try.

But I also know that my kids need a dad, not a martyr.

Things are often not as simple as we wish they were. I can think of other scenarios where I wouldn't have to think twice about joining the fight.

Just way to many variables to say "I will do _______".

 

[benenglish]

I have looked very hard, I have no family, no kids, no grandkids and have looked at other countries. NUMBER 1 problem is GUNS! Were it not for that, there are several places I would be at this time in my life.

If that's the only stumbling block, there are several good choices.

The Czechs love their guns, except for their weird attitude toward bullet configurations. No hollow points, no soft points, anywhere, for any reason. That "Guard Dog" ammo (the expanding FMJ stuff) was incredibly popular there for a long time but now they've changed the law and any expanding handgun ammo is prohibited.

The Finns love their guns.

If you've got the money to live in San Marino, then you probably already know about San Marino.

Cool evenings in Cyprus are often punctuated by the sound of someone a couple of valleys away playing with their M2 Browning, even though essentially all firearms are technically illegal on the island. Yet anyone who wants them has them.

The list could get pretty long, depending on what guns you want to own and how willing you are to obey the prevailing interpretation of local law and risk someone enforcing the letter of that law. You would, after all, be an outsider and, in many places, quite vulnerable if someone wanted to stomp you with the law.

 

[breakingcontact]

Most honest opinion I can give given that it's pure speculation.

Assuming things did break down, I have an aunt in a good area of Mexico. I would do my best to get my wife and kids there. If I felt I could make a difference I would try.

But I also know that my kids need a dad, not a martyr.

Things are often not as simple as we wish they were. I can think of other scenarios where I wouldn't have to think twice about joining the fight.

Just way to many variables to say "I will do _______".

Real talk

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I like Bens suggestion.

My plan now is to become super wealthy. Maybe buy own island.