Active Shooter at Robb Elementary in Uvalde

[cycleguy2300]

I have first hand experience with this. My brother should have been locked up in a nut hut permanently but they would usually only keep him for a couple of months at a time, after he came at my dad with a hammer for instance. My parents tried to get them to keep him locked up and were literally told "we can't unless he kills somebody". Well that's what he did and ended up in prison. Now I don't have my father and he didn't get any help in prison.

We would all be a lot safer if these people were kept off of the streets like we used to do.

Very sorry to hear that sir...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

 

[Renegade]

Do you actually expect anything useful from DOJ?....

Like I said above, I scanned it.

They referred to AR-15 has "High Power", and even discussed how evacuating other rooms was critical as it could penetrate mulitple walls and kids hunkered down on other rooms were not safe.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Do you actually expect anything useful from DOJ?....

I’m in the minute-by-minute section right now and so far I learned Arredondo was one of two dudes on-scene that had some type of ICS/NIMS training, which is something I doubted he had.

Knowing he had formal exposure to ICS/NIMS moves his story of “just trying to save lives” from ignorant to willfully negligent in his duty as Chief.

It also appears one of Constables who was on-scene early talked a big game but actively obstructed early actions by other agencies to seize the objective.

 

[popper]

could penetrate multiple walls BS in the first degree.
Problem is everybody want to spend $$ on mental health but that is NOT the big problem. Dysfunctional persons is different from mentally deficient. We will be forced to spend lots of tax $ (with minor outcome) on school and general 'counsellors' that have little RESONSIBILTY for the outcome. Like the counselling of students after a student dies. Is it effective?
Schools required to have LE on premises but NO equipment? Bet the shop class kids can gin up some shields for them.

 

[deemus]

Good documentary about the response to the shooting.

That is some heartbreaking stuff.

 

[deemus]

I have first hand experience with this. My brother should have been locked up in a nut hut permanently but they would usually only keep him for a couple of months at a time, after he came at my dad with a hammer for instance. My parents tried to get them to keep him locked up and were literally told "we can't unless he kills somebody". Well that's what he did and ended up in prison. Now I don't have my father and he didn't get any help in prison.

We would all be a lot safer if these people were kept off of the streets like we used to do.

My family member asked a cop if he could borrow his gun so he could shoot someone. We got lucky. He went away (aka locked up permanently) with no one getting killed.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Chapter 3 indicates UCISD PD’s internal guidance on an active school attack was outward looking and did not consider an active shooter inside the building. During the 2021 UCISD Active Shooter Course, UCISD’s stated goal during an active shooter would be to
* Isolate shooter until mutual aid agencies arrived
* Distract the attacker
* Neutralize the attacker

Active shooter response should be fairly simple:
1. Don’t dick around; neutralize the threat.

 

[Texasgordo]

LIVE: DOJ news conference on botched law enforcement response to Uvalde school shooting

A federal report into the halting and haphazard law enforcement response to a school shooting in Uvalde is scheduled to be released Thursday, reviving scruti...

m.youtube.com

Here's the full press conference with AG Garland

 

[DougC]

Elsewhere on this forum I posted an article with video discussing the shooting. One point in the blog that stood out from all the other comments was,

"From 11:33 AM to 11:36 AM, the shooter had several minutes of unopposed killing, despite police being nearby and aware that he had entered the school. Did any of them beat their feet and get in there to stop the killing the way every post-9/11 and post-Columbine cop had been trained to do? Not for minutes.

Despite arriving in numbers, the officers’ initial attempt to take the shooter on failed, with the police retreating at 11:37 AM, despite several of them having their own rifles." [In other forums I have read that most shootings of this type average 5 minutes or less.]

So before and during the shooting there were many missed opportunities. This school year 2023-2024 there is supposed to be armed defenders at every Texas school K-12 grades. Will see when seconds counts if the immediate armed response can counter the shooter until backup arrives.

 

[General Zod]

Elsewhere on this forum I posted an article with video discussing the shooting. One point in the blog that stood out from all the other comments was,

"From 11:33 AM to 11:36 AM, the shooter had several minutes of unopposed killing, despite police being nearby and aware that he had entered the school. Did any of them beat their feet and get in there to stop the killing the way every post-9/11 and post-Columbine cop had been trained to do? Not for minutes.

Despite arriving in numbers, the officers’ initial attempt to take the shooter on failed, with the police retreating at 11:37 AM, despite several of them having their own rifles." [In other forums I have read that most shootings of this type average 5 minutes or less.]

So before and during the shooting there were many missed opportunities. This school year 2023-2024 there is supposed to be armed defenders at every Texas school K-12 grades. Will see when seconds counts if the immediate armed response can counter the shooter until backup arrives.

The simple fact is the first cops on-scene chose to let children be murdered, and then spun a narrative to try to look like heroes afterward.

 

[BigRed]

DOJ report is out; 600+ pages, will have to digest it later, but first glance doesn’t really lead me to believe there will be a lot of surprises.

https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/17cdf85c2562971bd9f932b6426e41e1/DOJ%20Uvalde%20Critical%20Incident%20Review.pdf

Observations:

Gun free zones are demonstrably dangerous and often deadly.

.gov has a long history of failure. Rely upon it at your own risk.

 

[Eli]

Its not so much state legislators - the ACLU won a huge lawsuit that caused ripples nation-wide because they claimed locking up the mentally ill was cruel and unusual - so they turned them all out onto the streets and shut down the state mental health hospitals by and large - and now its damn hard to commit these people and get them the help they need AND keep them AWAY from the general public.

I deal with them every day at work. Homeless, drug addicted (self medicating, mostly because they like it more than their "real" medicine) and emotionally unstable.

A lot of them are senior citizens even - there is one man who is in his late 60s or early 70's - I'm not sure exactly which - but he's getting disability and SSA - he has a relative who is legally his care taker and payee - the person who is supposed to be responsible for his welfare and paying his bills. They take his money and put him on the street, with just a few dollars a month for cigs and *some* food. He's at our hospital *every* day. Usually not checking in to be seen, though sometimes because he *does* have medical problems. Its just that our facility is stable and safer than the streets. Honestly - we're more family to him than his own blood. We've talked to law enforcement, we've talked to his state social worker - no one will do anything to go after the sister and no one will do anything to ensure he's cared for, or to put him in a home.

Those who wind up in our psych ward / behavioral health unit are there temporarily - once the docs feel they aren't a harm to themselves or others - they're booted and told "take your medicine" - and like a boomerang, they're usually back, sooner rather than later.

Same faces. We get to know their names.

I feel bad for them - its a mix of circumstance and choices that lead them to where they are - but the key is that none of them wind up getting put up in a mental health hospital because its damned hard to commit someone (which, I won't argue is necessarily a bad thing, but the process is too damn slow when its clear that a person DOES need help and does need segregated from the general public, whether they want it or not)

Prison is not the right place for the majority of these people. A regular hospital is not the right place for the majority of these people. The streets are not the right place for any of them. Generations of family unit destruction, which kicked in to high gear under Johnson has shown us what comes of it. Mentally ill children become mentally ill teens - some of them turn into killers, or they take their own lives. Those that make it to adult hood usually wind up in trouble with the law. Sometimes they wind up killers, or taking their own life.

We don't have a gun problem. We have a mental health crisis brought upon us by the crumbling of our moral foundations and institutions - the family institution, the health institutions, and the criminal justice institution. Harris County DA won't prosecute most crimes. We can NOT get them to take a crim trespass charge. Best case - the cops pick up someone and drop them off down the street. They're gone for an hour, maybe a day, then they're back. When those tasked with upholding the law refuse, when the tools are taken away from those who will do it, and when we cannot lock away those who are a threat to the public - what happens?

A lot of this is a direct result of JFK's Community Mental Health Act - his sister Rosemary was brain damaged and crazy as the result of her mother keeping her legs crossed for hours awaiting the doctor (seriously!) and lobotomized; we got the Special Olympics and CMHA.
The Community Mental Health Act forced the state hospitals to close and empty their residents on the streets, because it's supposedly better for people to live in the general community instead of forcibly receiving the treatment they need. Reality is the hospitals were emptied and closed while the 'community centers' were mostly unbuilt and never funded - Democrats somehow blame Reagan for this - reality is the CMHA should be entirely repealed and these people forcibly institutionalized.

I have first hand experience with this. My brother should have been locked up in a nut hut permanently but they would usually only keep him for a couple of months at a time, after he came at my dad with a hammer for instance. My parents tried to get them to keep him locked up and were literally told "we can't unless he kills somebody". Well that's what he did and ended up in prison. Now I don't have my father and he didn't get any help in prison.

We would all be a lot safer if these people were kept off of the streets like we used to do.

Very sad to hear, and agree 100% they need to be kept off the streets.

Eli

 

[deemus]

A lot of this is a direct result of JFK's Community Mental Health Act - his sister Rosemary was brain damaged and crazy as the result of her mother keeping her legs crossed for hours awaiting the doctor (seriously!) and lobotomized; we got the Special Olympics and CMHA.
The Community Mental Health Act forced the state hospitals to close and empty their residents on the streets, because it's supposedly better for people to live in the general community instead of forcibly receiving the treatment they need. Reality is the hospitals were emptied and closed while the 'community centers' were mostly unbuilt and never funded - Democrats somehow blame Reagan for this - reality is the CMHA should be entirely repealed and these people forcibly institutionalized.


Very sad to hear, and agree 100% they need to be kept off the streets.

Eli

There are mental wards out there, but not many. And the ticket to get there permanently is very hard to earn. To even be admitted you either go voluntarily, or do something to show you are a danger to yourself or others.

I know a guy who earned a temporary ticket. Got on meds.was released in less than 6 months. Then eventually earned a permanent ride on that merry go round.

ETA - that JFK legislation needed to happen. Prior to that anyone could get anyone admitted and drugged up with almost zero proof. There was lots of abuse.

Sadly it swung too far the other direction.

 

[Sasquatch]

There are mental wards out there, but not many. And the ticket to get there permanently is very hard to earn. To even be admitted you either go voluntarily, or do something to show you are a danger to yourself or others.

I know a guy who earned a temporary ticket. Got on meds.was released in less than 6 months. Then eventually earned a permanent ride on that merry go round.

We see the same faces in and out, in and out, in and out.

We need to bring back asylums / state hospitals, and reform the system for committment. Right now the typical hospitals are overwhelmed, and the law requires that the doctor who evaluates the people brought in for psych treatment NOT be an employee of the facility, which means that when a patient is brought in, the hospital then calls a 3rd party doctor to come in and do the evaluation. Typically they have to come within 24 hours of the patient being admitted, but sometimes that doesn't happen, and if the patient is still being demonstrably violent, the doctor's can't / won't do an examination until the patient is calmed. Your typical hospital is NOT equipped to honestly handle psych patients, its essentially a minimum security jail where their physical condition is attended to, if necessary, but actual mental health care? No, its not taken care of at all.

People who are homicidal / suicidal and so far gone into psychosis there's no "normal" ever again for them get held and sedated until either a bed in an in-patient facility opens up, or the docs just cut 'em loose because for 30 seconds while talking to the doc, they're not wanting to kill themselves or someone else.

Getting the courts to warrant someone for commitment is so beyond difficult its not funny, partly because the courts move at a glacial pace, and partly because the DA / police / hospitals / courts just don't want the headache and hassle. Its easier to cut these people loose and turn them back to the streets. Then you throw in jaded medical staff - nurses and doctors - that honestly just don't give a flying **** anymore and its worse. Honestly I would not want to deal with most of the ER staff I know because their compassion is long gone juding by the attitudes I've witnessed regularly from them.

I had a nurse argue with me once when a patient was trying to re-admit for psych issues, after the doctors had bounced her (medically cleared for discharge) that re-admitting and holding her until a bed at an inpatient facility opened up would be an EMTALA violation. The real violation was the nurse turning the patient away, but honestly the nurse and the hospital just didn't give a shit. The whole reason she was trying to re-admit was she had talked to a psych hospital in downtown Houston, they did NOT have a bed right then for her, but they would have one within 24 hours. This person was in crisis and had a history of suicide attempts. We even called the cops, because med staff told us if the cops EDO'd her, they wouldn't have a choice. Cops showed up, said "**** it, she's already at a hospital, we're not EDO'ing, and not taking her to a different hospital, its y'alls problem." and left. We were just trying to get this person emergency care, and no one would take her problem seriously.

You could have a thousand bed psych hospital built here in Houston, and it would be full overnight and the problem wouldn't be scratched here, but it would be a start. Putting people out on the street is no humanitarian solution. Putting people in prison is certainly no humanitarian solution when they really need mental health help -- but its better than those people roaming the street.

Maybe bussing these folk into the rich neighborhoods of politicians, like we've done with illegals, would spur some action, but I doubt it.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Sigh. UPD was so close to breaching so many times. While Arredondo went from incompetent to negligently interfering, the Constable I referred to earlier also interfered to the point of negligence.

Gut tells me the ISD PD phoned it in in general and UPD, though they tried hard, was not funded, trained, equipped, or manned for much more than basic policing, no matter what capabilities they advertised.

 

[deemus]

The standing around.........

ugh.

 

[General Zod]

Sigh. UPD was so close to breaching so many times. While Arredondo went from incompetent to negligently interfering, the Constable I referred to earlier also interfered to the point of negligence.

In my opinion they went from "negligent" to "complicit" and maybe even "accessory"...Nothing says "competence" like creating a safe space so the murders can continue.

 

[Renegade]

They started at LARP, went to damn he is shooting at us, lets wait for real cops to solve this, to covering up their cowardice.

All should be fired except the BORTAC that actually did something.

 

[toddnjoyce]

This will be my last post for this topic, I think.

The biggest lesson to be learned from the DOJ report is that unless your agency is large enough, well funded enough, and sees complex situations often enough, there but for the grace of God goes thee.

None of what’s in the report is going to truly influence the security posture at any given school, and in at least one glaring instance, the simplest of measures…locking all the doors…only works before the threat is in the building.

Once a threat is inside a building, locked exterior doors present the same challenge to LEOs as they do to anyone else; none shall pass.

 

[Rhino]

My biggest beef is with them restraining parents who were willing to make the assault.