Active Shooter at Robb Elementary in Uvalde

[easy rider]

Apparently they were running on instinct.

If that were the case, no parents would have been restrained from entering by LEOs. That happened, didn't it?

That's certainly what I remember seeing. I'm sure many heard shots being fired also.

 

[Renegade]

If that were the case, no parents would have been restrained from entering by LEOs. That happened, didn't it?

No parent, has ever been allowed to enter a mass casualty active crime scene. Ever. Anywhere.

 

[easy rider]

No parent, has ever been allowed to enter a mass casualty active crime scene. Ever. Anywhere.

Didn't stop one that I remember. A mom.

 

[Renegade]

Didn't stop one that I remember. A mom.

"alllowed".

 

[seeker_two]

No parent, has ever been allowed to enter a mass casualty active crime scene. Ever. Anywhere.

Ain't as much about "allowed" as "outgunned".....

 

[Renegade]

Ain't as much about "allowed" as "outgunned".....

It is about allowed. The context was the shooting was over. So there was no "outgunned".

 

[easy rider]

"alllowed".

Makes you wonder though, a mother, with no idea whether she was running into gunfire had more guts than dozens of police officers.

 

[Renegade]

A cop on scene, his wife was in there dying and he did nothing.

At approximately 11:56 a.m., UCISD PD Ofc. 1 informs Constable Field, in the presence of several other
officers at the T-intersection of the West Building hallway (see figure 1-1 on page 8), that his wife, a
teacher in classroom 112, says she has been shot. Uvalde Police Department (UPD) Acting Chief Mariano
Pargas guides UCISD PD Ofc. 1 out of the hallway via the northwest door

 

[motorcarman]

If I were a conspiracy theorist I would believe that many of these school shootings were contrived. Too many gutless LEO's around the U.S. to reason with.

MK ULTRA comes to mind!

ALSO...................... An angry/motivated 'law abiding' parent is a lot easier to control than a terroristic shooter.

The LEO can brag about stopping more violence. (the parent)

 

[Sasquatch]

Todd mentioned that until the cops have experienced it and proven themselves, they cannot be counted on - I'd suggest then that the police academy / academies be required to add another 4 weeks minimum to their training, dedicated entirely to close quarters combat and scenario drills for active shooters, be required to participate in simunitions scenarios, and no cop shall pass the academy without at least actively being a trigger puller as a responder in a minimum of a dozen scenarios as a foundational skill, with a minimum of 24 hours per year dedicated / mandated by the state for active shooter response training including no less than 16 hours of sims based scenario training.

LE agencies rely far too heavily on SWAT for responding to shit like this, when its normal patrol cops who are the first on scene every damn time. Prior to columbine, the SOP was wait for backup, then go in. After Columbine it became "You go now" - as you arrived, you went in. Then that apparently has slid into "OMG we might break a nail chasing the bad man, we're going to pull back and listen to gunshots as the killer murders children"

Police agencies get mandates for certain types of training regularly, but shit should be prioritized. I think they could forego diversity training and other PC nonsense, and spend more time in scenarios, shoots, and then emergency medical for a post-shooting immediate response for live saving. Or maybe its time to consider a statewide change in how law enforcement is organized, and minimum agency size, etc - to a point where if your department cannot stand up a force of at least 20 or 30 officers, you go with the county, or form regional police departments that cover more than one city, and remove ISD's / university police departments and meld them into the local force be it city cops, sheriff offices, or constables office. There are so many damned law enforcement agencies in this state, I'm honestly surprised that HOA's dont' have the ability to stand up their own police departments.

Cops need to be trained how to respond to a shoot - and going into a situation is easier to do for real when you have lots of practice - so they should get that practice as soon as possible, preferably before they hit the road as a probationary officer. I've only taken one FOF active shooter class, but I'll tell you the way it amps up your response, it's easily the most important training I've ever had and the most stressful, the most eye opening - hearing gun shots echoing thru the halls of a school and being the one moving toward those gunshots definitely jacks up the heart rate. Seeing a badguy pop around the corner and aim his gun at you, and seeing a muzzle blast (blank rounds) really amps it up. That is something every cops needs to experience. I'm just a security monkey, but I know damn sure I'm not backing out and letting kids die while I am physically able to engage.

 

[easy rider]

MK ULTRA comes to mind!

ALSO...................... An angry/motivated 'law abiding' parent is a lot easier to control than a terroristic shooter.

The LEO can brag about stopping more violence. (the parent)

All I know is that if it was my kid in there, I would have been in cuffs too. If they could catch me.

 

[General Zod]

Todd mentioned that until the cops have experienced it and proven themselves, they cannot be counted on - I'd suggest then that the police academy / academies be required to add another 4 weeks minimum to their training, dedicated entirely to close quarters combat and scenario drills for active shooters, be required to participate in simunitions scenarios, and no cop shall pass the academy without at least actively being a trigger puller as a responder in a minimum of a dozen scenarios as a foundational skill, with a minimum of 24 hours per year dedicated / mandated by the state for active shooter response training including no less than 16 hours of sims based scenario training.

LE agencies rely far too heavily on SWAT for responding to shit like this, when its normal patrol cops who are the first on scene every damn time. Prior to columbine, the SOP was wait for backup, then go in. After Columbine it became "You go now" - as you arrived, you went in. Then that apparently has slid into "OMG we might break a nail chasing the bad man, we're going to pull back and listen to gunshots as the killer murders children"

Police agencies get mandates for certain types of training regularly, but shit should be prioritized. I think they could forego diversity training and other PC nonsense, and spend more time in scenarios, shoots, and then emergency medical for a post-shooting immediate response for live saving. Or maybe its time to consider a statewide change in how law enforcement is organized, and minimum agency size, etc - to a point where if your department cannot stand up a force of at least 20 or 30 officers, you go with the county, or form regional police departments that cover more than one city, and remove ISD's / university police departments and meld them into the local force be it city cops, sheriff offices, or constables office. There are so many damned law enforcement agencies in this state, I'm honestly surprised that HOA's dont' have the ability to stand up their own police departments.

Cops need to be trained how to respond to a shoot - and going into a situation is easier to do for real when you have lots of practice - so they should get that practice as soon as possible, preferably before they hit the road as a probationary officer. I've only taken one FOF active shooter class, but I'll tell you the way it amps up your response, it's easily the most important training I've ever had and the most stressful, the most eye opening - hearing gun shots echoing thru the halls of a school and being the one moving toward those gunshots definitely jacks up the heart rate. Seeing a badguy pop around the corner and aim his gun at you, and seeing a muzzle blast (blank rounds) really amps it up. That is something every cops needs to experience. I'm just a security monkey, but I know damn sure I'm not backing out and letting kids die while I am physically able to engage.

Yeah, but if they did that, then they'd have more effective responses to mass shootings and that would erode the left's false justification for attempting to restrict our rights. They need the body count to point to as a reason for their new laws. They have the bills written and waiting for a big enough horror, and they're eagerly anticipating their next opportunity.

 

[easy rider]

Yeah, but if they did that, then they'd have more effective responses to mass shootings and that would erode the left's false justification for attempting to restrict our rights. They need the body count to point to as a reason for their new laws. They have the bills written and waiting for a big enough horror, and they're eagerly anticipating their next opportunity.

Goes back to my "If I was a conspiracy theorist...." moment.

 

[seeker_two]

A cop on scene, his wife was in there dying and he did nothing.

At approximately 11:56 a.m., UCISD PD Ofc. 1 informs Constable Field, in the presence of several other
officers at the T-intersection of the West Building hallway (see figure 1-1 on page 8), that his wife, a
teacher in classroom 112, says she has been shot. Uvalde Police Department (UPD) Acting Chief Mariano
Pargas guides UCISD PD Ofc. 1 out of the hallway via the northwest door

He was disarmed and escorted off-scene.....which made him the biggest coward of all. Any other good husband would have shot his way in to save her.....

 

[roadkill]

Todd mentioned that until the cops have experienced it and proven themselves, they cannot be counted on - I'd suggest then that the police academy / academies be required to add another 4 weeks minimum to their training, dedicated entirely to close quarters combat and scenario drills for active shooters, be required to participate in simunitions scenarios, and no cop shall pass the academy without at least actively being a trigger puller as a responder in a minimum of a dozen scenarios as a foundational skill, with a minimum of 24 hours per year dedicated / mandated by the state for active shooter response training including no less than 16 hours of sims based scenario training.

LE agencies rely far too heavily on SWAT for responding to shit like this, when its normal patrol cops who are the first on scene every damn time. Prior to columbine, the SOP was wait for backup, then go in. After Columbine it became "You go now" - as you arrived, you went in. Then that apparently has slid into "OMG we might break a nail chasing the bad man, we're going to pull back and listen to gunshots as the killer murders children"

Police agencies get mandates for certain types of training regularly, but shit should be prioritized. I think they could forego diversity training and other PC nonsense, and spend more time in scenarios, shoots, and then emergency medical for a post-shooting immediate response for live saving. Or maybe its time to consider a statewide change in how law enforcement is organized, and minimum agency size, etc - to a point where if your department cannot stand up a force of at least 20 or 30 officers, you go with the county, or form regional police departments that cover more than one city, and remove ISD's / university police departments and meld them into the local force be it city cops, sheriff offices, or constables office. There are so many damned law enforcement agencies in this state, I'm honestly surprised that HOA's dont' have the ability to stand up their own police departments.

Cops need to be trained how to respond to a shoot - and going into a situation is easier to do for real when you have lots of practice - so they should get that practice as soon as possible, preferably before they hit the road as a probationary officer. I've only taken one FOF active shooter class, but I'll tell you the way it amps up your response, it's easily the most important training I've ever had and the most stressful, the most eye opening - hearing gun shots echoing thru the halls of a school and being the one moving toward those gunshots definitely jacks up the heart rate. Seeing a badguy pop around the corner and aim his gun at you, and seeing a muzzle blast (blank rounds) really amps it up. That is something every cops needs to experience. I'm just a security monkey, but I know damn sure I'm not backing out and letting kids die while I am physically able to engage.

the problem is the masses want an Officer friendly and Officer diversity hires. What we need are killers. Officers not afraid to use force and have used force before. We don’t need officers to play ball with the kids. We need officers not afraid to bash a few heads if needed and an admin that will stand behind those officers.

 

[General Zod]

the problem is the masses want an Officer friendly and Officer diversity hires. What we need are killers. Officers not afraid to use force and have used force before. We don’t need officers to play ball with the kids. We need officers not afraid to bash a few heads if needed and an admin that will stand behind those officers.

There's no reason those traits can't all be in the same cop. We don't need maladjusted tyrants patrolling the streets. Hell, even Robocop tried to relate to the public. Sasquatch is 100% right - police officers (recruits, as well as "seasoned" officers in mandatory retraining) need to be given experience in these scenarios so they know about what to expect and to develop skills and instincts to get them - and potential victims - out alive. Shoot houses, simunition training, anything that can simulate the stress and the "feel" of the experience and they need to do it repeatedly until they're conditioned to respond correctly.

Not ruthlessly, correctly. To end the threat and protect the public. We do not need killers. We need skilled responders who will protect the defenseless when called on instead of cowering down the hall while children are murdered.

 

[Sasquatch]

There's no reason those traits can't all be in the same cop. We don't need maladjusted tyrants patrolling the streets. Hell, even Robocop tried to relate to the public. Sasquatch is 100% right - police officers (recruits, as well as "seasoned" officers in mandatory retraining) need to be given experience in these scenarios so they know about what to expect and to develop skills and instincts to get them - and potential victims - out alive. Shoot houses, simunition training, anything that can simulate the stress and the "feel" of the experience and they need to do it repeatedly until they're conditioned to respond correctly.

Not ruthlessly, correctly. To end the threat and protect the public. We do not need killers. We need skilled responders who will protect the defenseless when called on instead of cowering down the hall while children are murdered.

Well said

 

[benenglish]

We need officers not afraid to bash a few heads if needed

That's a tall order. I've known a few officers who were very good at that sort of thing because they liked doing it. They liked it way too much. One guy I went to high school with became a cop, drew a lot of complaints, and eventually got into a bad shoot in Houston. When I saw it on the news my first thought was "How the hell did that psycho bully I knew from high school ever trick someone into hiring him as a cop?"

I didn't even know he had been a cop for a couple of decades until I saw him on the news. That he turned out to be a disgrace didn't surprise me in the least. That he had managed to find cover for his violent tendencies for so long, though, absolutely did surprise me.

I don't see a solution. I want the cop who goes after the crook who hurts me or mine to be a sadistic son of a bitch. I also want all cops to operate in Officer Friendly mode by default at all times.

I don't think those goals are reconcilable in a single human being. To repeat: I don't see a solution.

 

[benenglish]

There's no reason those traits can't all be in the same cop.

You have an admirable level of faith in your fellow humans. I wish I felt the same.

 

[General Zod]

You have an admirable level of faith in your fellow humans. I wish I felt the same.

Training. Repetitive training, both in overcoming stressful combat situations and in de-escalation when appropriate. As well as going back to walking patrols where the cops actually get to know the people in the neighborhoods they patrol (and stay in better shape in the process...looking at you, Kaufman County Sheriff's Department) There just has to be the will to see it implemented and a willingness to pay for the training that would be required. Maybe a few fewer armored vehicles and a few more training facilities.