Ahmaud Arbery - The Trial

[easy rider]

You believe that murder charges were excessive for murdering someone? What do you think the charges should have been? And the driver was charged because he filmed the whole incident and did nothing to stop it. He literally filmed someone being murdered and then drove off like nothing happened.

I don't know, what evidence did you see that I didn't? Was it premeditated? If not, how would the guy videoing it know that he would be shot?

Arbery wasn't jogging in the area, that's pure bull. The police had said he was a suspect in felony theft. From what I understand, you don't have to actually witness the theft in felony theft to make a citizens arrest. I'm certainly not going to argue that these were the smartest guys, but if you are having a lot of thefts in your neighborhood, people will start to take law into their own hands.

 

[Axxe55]

I don't know, what evidence did you see that I didn't? Was it premeditated? If not, how would the guy videoing it know that he would be shot?

Arbery wasn't jogging in the area, that's pure bull. The police had said he was a suspect in felony theft. From what I understand, you don't have to actually witness the theft in felony theft to make a citizens arrest. I'm certainly not going to argue that these were the smartest guys, but if you are having a lot of thefts in your neighborhood, people will start to take law into their own hands.

From what I gathered, Arbery being a suspect in a felony theft was after the fact, and if that is true, they didn't know that when they attempted to "arrest" Arbery.

From what I have read, it probably wasn't premeditated, but it was murder. And some one recording the incident and not doing anything to try and stop it, IMO is just as guilty as the ones that pulled the trigger. At least he has chance at parole in the future. He should be thankful.

 

[easy rider]

From what I gathered, Arbery being a suspect in a felony theft was after the fact, and if that is true, they didn't know that when they attempted to "arrest" Arbery.

From what I have read, it probably wasn't premeditated, but it was murder. And some one recording the incident and not doing anything to try and stop it, IMO is just as guilty as the ones that pulled the trigger. At least he has chance at parole in the future. He should be thankful.

I just have to ask myself, had this been a white guy would the charges have been as excessive? The hype certainly wouldn't have been.

 

[Axxe55]

I just have to ask myself, had this been a white guy would the charges have been as excessive? The hype certainly wouldn't have been.

I understand what you're asking, but I can't honestly answer that question, because I have no idea. Skin color should not be a factor in any crime that results in death, but unfortunately, too many people do want to use it for a political agenda, instead of just trying the case based upon facts. The political agenda does in some way influence people's opinions one way or the other in such instances. It's not not right and sure isn't fair. Politics has no place in any criminal trial in any way shape or form.

 

[deemus]

From what I gathered, Arbery being a suspect in a felony theft was after the fact, and if that is true, they didn't know that when they attempted to "arrest" Arbery.

From what I have read, it probably wasn't premeditated, but it was murder. And some one recording the incident and not doing anything to try and stop it, IMO is just as guilty as the ones that pulled the trigger. At least he has chance at parole in the future. He should be thankful.

Its possible that he didn't know the guy would get shot, and was recording to document what ever might happen. I don't think he should have been charged at all. Wondering if his conviction might be overturned on appeal?

 

[candcallen]

I don't think the charges were excessive. They had no right to hunt that guy down and everything that happened they own. They caused all of it. Peroid.

I also have related that both times I bought new homes I went into homes under construction to see what's going into them. You got no right to chase a guy down with a shotgun for doing basically nothing. I dont give a flying phuck what you think hes done. Even if you call the cops nothing will happen. No crime was committed. Quit giving these phucks any kind of pass whatsoever.

I said before to expect post sentencing relief. I think they will get a parole date and guy who filmed might get 10 years knocked off his sentence.

 

[easy rider]

I have listened to both sides, and like I said, I don't think they are innocent. I just believe it was politicized to the point where the charges were excessive all around. All I can do is shake my head every time I hear "Modern day lynching."

 

[jrbfishn]

IIRC, it was the senior McMichaels that suspected him of thefts AFTER seeing his actions that day. Not the police.
The guy filming also stated that he had cut him off from getting away at least once or twice and they were coordinating with radios. That means he was not just filming but an active participant in whatever the outcome was to be.
Probably not the outcome he was thinking of. But he was still part of it. Not just a witness.

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[Axxe55]

I have listened to both sides, and like I said, I don't think they are innocent. I just believe it was politicized to the point where the charges were excessive all around. All I can do is shake my head every time I hear "Modern day lynching."

I can't disagree with you on that, but if the charges were excessive, the jury didn't think so.

 

[jrbfishn]

I have listened to both sides, and like I said, I don't think they are innocent. I just believe it was politicized to the point where the charges were excessive all around. All I can do is shake my head every time I hear "Modern day lynching."

I doubt that they hoped it would end the way it did. But because of their actions that day, things went south in a hurry. If they had just followed and reported to police they might have been the heroes they set out to be. But they tried to capture with lethal force in their hands. And it didn't end well.

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[easy rider]

I doubt that they hoped it would end the way it did. But because of their actions that day, things went south in a hurry. If they had just followed and reported to police they might have been the heroes they set out to be. But they tried to capture with lethal force in their hands. And it didn't end well.

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It's my opinion. Like Chauvin, I believe this was highly politicized and the trial and verdict were due to mob mentality, rather than justice.

 

[benenglish]

Felony murder. Participating in a crime that ends up with a murder means murder for all parties involved even if only involved in the conspiracy or driving and filming in this instance.

Like many thing criminal justice related it's not something folks always agree with.

That's a big subject.

I'll simply observe that in most of the first world, the concept of felony murder doesn't exist.

I'll also state my belief: the concept of felony murder is an abomination and should be abolished. A murder conviction should require intent and felony murder basically removes that requirement. It's a barbaric vestige of the desire to find vengeance rather than seek justice.

It's an embarrassment that it still exists anywhere in the USA.

In the instant case, I didn't listen to the whole trial so I won't comment. The devil, as always, is in the details and he may have done more to merit his charges and sentence than that of which I am aware.

 

[Younggun]

I have listened to both sides, and like I said, I don't think they are innocent. I just believe it was politicized to the point where the charges were excessive all around. All I can do is shake my head every time I hear "Modern day lynching."

I don’t feel like the charges were necessarily wrong for everyone, although I could easily entertain the idea that the camera guy was “overcharged”.

Arguments concerning the sentences handed down aren’t too far fetched though. I tend to lean heavily on the side of rights and in this case I don’t think they had any right to chase down anyone, nor attempt to use force to detain them. They didn’t witness a crime AFAIK so don’t see how a citizens arrest comes in to play.

I don’t think the new fed charges should be happening. And don’t like the idea of “hate crimes” in general.


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[candcallen]

That's a big subject.

I'll simply observe that in most of the first world, the concept of felony murder doesn't exist.

I'll also state my belief: the concept of felony murder is an abomination and should be abolished. A murder conviction should require intent and felony murder basically removes that requirement. It's a barbaric vestige of the desire to find vengeance rather than seek justice.

It's an embarrassment that it still exists anywhere in the USA.

In the instant case, I didn't listen to the whole trial so I won't comment. The devil, as always, is in the details and he may have done more to merit his charges and sentence than that of which I am aware.

I think it's a tool usually misused and its intent has been lost.

Example, someone who is a leader in a conspiracy and planning a crime where its likely violence or death will occure should carry the full load of the consequences of the fruits of their labor. There or not.

Some kid waiting in car where his friend decided to rob and murder should not buy that charge.

In this case the guy knowingly participated in the pursuit by cutting him off and as such not just some guy filming the incident.

I will posit this. The concept of holding participants of a crime responsible regardless of their deeds isnt as foreign as you think. We do so all the time in dealing with the results of war time or terrorists actions and have done so for all history

Just a thought.

 

[Axxe55]

It's my opinion. Like Chauvin, I believe this was highly politicized and the trial and verdict were due to mob mentality, rather than justice.

Not that I disagree, but one could suppose that mob mentality went the other direction for Rittenhouse.

And for the record, IMO the not guilty verdict for Rittenhouse was the correct one.

 

[benenglish]

The concept of holding participants of a crime responsible regardless of their deeds isnt as foreign as you think. We do so all the time in dealing with the results of war time or terrorists actions and have done so for all history

I understand that. I simply don't believe that concept should be instantiated into peacetime law.

I make allowances to forgive the use of excessive deadly force during war. As Navy Seal Jocko Willink has said (paraphrasing) "You have to accept that if you go to war, you'll kill people. You'll kill the enemy. You'll kill noncombatants. You'll kill innocent old men, women, and children. Collateral damage will happen. You have to be able to live with that."

I don't think that mindset has any place in peacetime criminal justice proceedings. "Convict 'em all and let the appeals sort 'em out" is just as recklessly evil a mindset as "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out."

Example, someone who is a leader in a conspiracy and planning a crime where its likely violence or death will occure should carry the full load of the consequences of the fruits of their labor.

Agreed. But their crime is conspiracy to commit murder, a charge that requires intent. The penalties can justifiably be as harsh as for the person who pulled the trigger.

"Felony murder" is a tool whose purpose is completely redundant. Anyone guilty of felony murder is also guilty of what they and they alone specifically did during the crime. They should be punished for that, not for something conceived of and perpetrated by someone else.

 

[easy rider]

Not that I disagree, but one could suppose that mob mentality went the other direction for Rittenhouse.

And for the record, IMO the not guilty verdict for Rittenhouse was the correct one.

There were a lot more videos in the Rittenhouse case. Yet there are still people that believe Kyle was out hunting black people. I too believe Kyle's verdict was correct, but I had my doubts for awhile there that the jury saw it that way.

 

[candcallen]

I understand that. I simply don't believe that concept should be instantiated into peacetime law.

I make allowances to forgive the use of excessive deadly force during war. As Navy Seal Jocko Willink has said (paraphrasing) "You have to accept that if you go to war, you'll kill people. You'll kill the enemy. You'll kill noncombatants. You'll kill innocent old men, women, and children. Collateral damage will happen. You have to be able to live with that."

I don't think that mindset has any place in peacetime criminal justice proceedings. "Convict 'em all and let the appeals sort 'em out" is just as recklessly evil a mindset as "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out."

Agreed. But their crime is conspiracy to commit murder, a charge that requires intent. The penalties can justifiably be as harsh as for the person who pulled the trigger.

"Felony murder" is a tool whose purpose is completely redundant. Anyone guilty of felony murder is also guilty of what they and they alone specifically did during the crime. They should be punished for that, not for something conceived of and perpetrated by someone else.

I think its missused at times and unneeded at others and, as you say, will agree its probably redundant. Most folks I've seen charged are actual coconspirators who knowingly participated in the crimes.

In those cases I cant find fault in everyone buying the murder charge. They willfully knowingly went down the road to commit a violent crime.

 

[deemus]

This is where I think there could be a difference for camera guy. It’s possible these guys thought or had knowledge he had committed a crime. It’s hard fir me to think camera guy knew the idiots were going to kill Aurbery.

if he knew it, would he want his buddies on camera shooting the guy? I would argue he would not.

seems an over-reach for camera guy.

yeah, they are all three idiots. But it seems a stretch to think he had murderous intent.

 

[Axxe55]

Comes back to who you choose to be friends with. The people you associate with or choose as your friends can get you into way more trouble sometimes than you would by yourself.