Anatomy of a stuck (steel) case.

[M. Sage]

Well, I finally got my first stuck case on one of my ARs today, after around 800 rounds without cleaning, almost exclusively cheap steel-cased "junk" ammo.

I popped the stuck case out then inspected the crap out of everything. The best part? I had a bore scope at home to help me check everything out! I know what everybody is wondering, "was it lacquer?" Nope.

It was definitely carbon build up. It wasn't hot today (warm, but not hot) and I wasn't doing mag dumps today unlike a couple trips ago where I did a couple. When I got the case out, there was no damage to the finish, no melting. What I did find on the case was carbon.

I ran the bore scope into the chamber to get a really good look. Same thing there, carbon everywhere, but no sign of lacquer.

Steel cases aren't going to expand and seal as well as brass. My chamber is going to be a little on the looser side since it's a 5.56 chamber, so I think that a .223 chamber would work better, since it will be more likely to seal. Then again, it might wind up being worse because it'll take less carbon build-up to close the gap.

The extractor seems to be fine, and is definitely tougher than the steel the cases are made of. It ripped part of the rim off with no visible damage.

Lastly, I know for a fact this can't be lacquer because my ammo has never been coated with that stuff. It's the newer polymer coated cases.

I think I'll take a case to work, put a propane torch to it and measure what temperature (if any) can cause the case coating to melt.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Almost every time at work people bring AR's and steel case ammo, we usually see FTE's pretty frequently. I would say the most common cause I've seen on the steel case stuff is the rim cracking off. That stuff is just brittle, and it seems to happen fairly frequently.

 

[Dawico]

When I shoot it in my AR, the cases start clean and end up being covered in carbon during the first or second magazine. That stuff is very dirty. It does take some long strings with no cleaning before I get any cases stuck though, but it has happened.

 

[M. Sage]

Almost every time at work people bring AR's and steel case ammo, we usually see FTE's pretty frequently. I would say the most common cause I've seen on the steel case stuff is the rim cracking off. That stuff is just brittle, and it seems to happen fairly frequently.

It wasn't simple brittle steel that caused this. I had to put a cleaning rod down the bore and hit it with a hammer to get it out. It was in there enough for me to feel pain in my hand smacking the handle of the cleaning rod trying to drive it out.

I'm the kind of guy that doesn't wear gloves when I hit a heavy bag. I only need light gloves if it's a canvas bag, and only then to keep the skin on my knuckles and blood stains off the bag.

 

[Texas1911]

Almost every time at work people bring AR's and steel case ammo, we usually see FTE's pretty frequently. I would say the most common cause I've seen on the steel case stuff is the rim cracking off. That stuff is just brittle, and it seems to happen fairly frequently.

Steel is shitloads stronger than brass; it's the fact that the case is stuck in the chamber that is the issue.

 

[Texastransplant]

I am guessing that 90% of AR's have carbon build up but the owner thinks their weapon is clean. This is the cause of most failures not steel case ammo. Russia, China have been using it for decades and no problems, that's why we buy their cheap ammo. Clean your carrier, bolt and chamber and SCRAPE the carbon off the brush and solvent doesn't take it off. It almost becomes part of the stees especiallly in the bolt. It's pretty good amo but you have to be an excellent cleaner of your weapon.

 

[cuate]

Stuck steel cases, when I was firing my AR with Wolf and whatever I never had an instance of a stuck case...But your family history and ancestery, Congratulations ! Proud of you and them, Thank you for serving and especially during a time when you and our other military folks were being given hell here at home by leftist swine ! God Bless You ! I helped build Hueys and Cobras that you likely rode in or were supported by.....

 

[MR Redneck]

I never had a case get stuck in anything other than a .22. It was also due to carbon build up in the chamber.
I shoot zinc plated and plain ol junk steel ammo. Never had a problem with either, but I clean the gun everytime I shoot it. At the most, I might have put 500 rounds through on of my AR's without cleaning it. I shoot a lot of brass to, but I also clean the gun.
You'r FTE was a good test for us all. Now we have a good idea how far we can go.
Do yall think some of the carbon build up could have been low grade powder in that ammo? I notice that happens to me with the Aguila .22 ammo. That crap is junk and i'll be glad when I get rid of it all. The winchester Western is much better for me.

 

[M. Sage]

I am guessing that 90% of AR's have carbon build up but the owner thinks their weapon is clean. This is the cause of most failures not steel case ammo. Russia, China have been using it for decades and no problems, that's why we buy their cheap ammo. Clean your carrier, bolt and chamber and SCRAPE the carbon off the brush and solvent doesn't take it off. It almost becomes part of the stees especiallly in the bolt. It's pretty good amo but you have to be an excellent cleaner of your weapon.

The problem was not with the bolt group, but entirely with the chamber. I gave the bolt and carrier a quick glance and reinstalled them as-is after cleaning the chamber and barrel.

I never had a case get stuck in anything other than a .22. It was also due to carbon build up in the chamber.
I shoot zinc plated and plain ol junk steel ammo. Never had a problem with either, but I clean the gun everytime I shoot it. At the most, I might have put 500 rounds through on of my AR's without cleaning it. I shoot a lot of brass to, but I also clean the gun.
You'r FTE was a good test for us all. Now we have a good idea how far we can go.
Do yall think some of the carbon build up could have been low grade powder in that ammo? I notice that happens to me with the Aguila .22 ammo. That crap is junk and i'll be glad when I get rid of it all. The winchester Western is much better for me.

Thanks.

Crap powder might have something to do with it, but you're going to have a lot of carbon right there at the case mouth with any ammo.

My .22 loves Aguila Supermaximum. There's dirtier stuff out there in my experience.

 

[MR Redneck]

Thats what I have been shooting is the Supermaximum. After 200 rounds or so through my 10/22 it gets a lot of FTE's. Clean the barrel and it goes to working just fine. This is the only ammo that does that to me. I bought 10 bricks of that crap about 3 years ago, so maybe it's something in production.
Im getting Wolf Match grade next time I order. Im not ordering a ton of one brand no more either unless it say's SS109 on it.
And WAX??!! Why cover the bullet in wax??

 

[M. Sage]

Which one is covered in wax? Not sure that's the Supermax, I remember those being jacketed and dry.

 

[MR Redneck]

The Aguila Supermaximum Hyper Velocity is covered in wax. I have a box right here in front of me and you can scrape your nail accross it and remove the wax. I think the wax is what causes the sticking problem I have.

 

[M. Sage]

The Aguila Supermaximum Hyper Velocity is covered in wax. I have a box right here in front of me and you can scrape your nail accross it and remove the wax. I think the wax is what causes the sticking problem I have.

Odd. The stuff I had didn't have anything on it, the bullets were dry. Usually the only .22 ammo that's got lube on it is bare lead bullets. The copper plated bullets don't need lube.

 

[Texasjack]

I think it's been implied, but that steel cased ammo is made in countries where "quality" is not a word used in manufacturing. Crappy powder can aggravate the carbon issue.

Steel may be harder than brass, but it's not as flexible. It also doesn't conduct heat as well. (When manufacturers tested automatic rifles with 'caseless' ammo, they found that brass pulls a lot of excess heat out of the receiver.) There are good reasons that brass is still being used after all these years.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Steel is shitloads stronger than brass; it's the fact that the case is stuck in the chamber that is the issue.

Good point. You actually changed my mind about something for once.

 

[M. Sage]

LOL, he's right. I had to use a cleaning rod and a hammer to get that thing out. I think brass would have probably shaken out.

... but I don't know. Crap. Now I'm going to have to get some brass-cased ammo, remove my extractor and shoot one to see how hard it is to get the case out.

 

[ROGER4314]

I had a Wolf steel case seize up so badly that I had to pound it out of the chamber. I had a bunch of the older lacquer coated Wolf but had better luck with the gray colored poly coated rounds. Some of my AR's would not take Wolf at all. Some ate it all day without a problem. I found it shot to the same point of aim as Winchester Q3131 at 200 yards. It is some dirty ammo and I'll just keep it as a backup from now on.

Flash

 

[Texas1911]

Good point. You actually changed my mind about something for once.

That you'll admit to ...

 

[ROGER4314]

Dewey makes a short cleaning rod that you can attach a .223 chamber cleaning brush to. The handle does NOT rotate on the rod like the normal Dewey rods do. It does a good job to "Roto Rooter" the crap out of the AR-15 chamber as you twist the brush in the chamber.

Pro-Shot makes a flexible, short rod with fixed handle that I use for .30 rifles like the M1A where you can't get to the chamber and locking lugs very well. I use a .30 chamber brush on that one.

Both are great products made by people who understand the needs of rifle shooters.

Flash

 

[M. Sage]

Dewey makes a short cleaning rod that you can attach a .223 chamber cleaning brush to. The handle does NOT rotate on the rod like the normal Dewey rods do. It does a good job to "Roto Rooter" the crap out of the AR-15 chamber as you twist the brush in the chamber.

Pro-Shot makes a flexible, short rod with fixed handle that I use for .30 rifles like the M1A where you can't get to the chamber and locking lugs very well. I use a .30 chamber brush on that one.

Both are great products made by people who understand the needs of rifle shooters.

Flash

I have an Otis kit that came with short rods and a T-handle for them that are just the right length to clean the chamber on an AR (which is the rifle that particular kit was designed for). It's also got a chamber brush in the kit.