Are you prepared after the defense incident to interact with the police?

[Renegade]

CHAPTER 83. USE OF FORCE OR DEADLY FORCE

Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.

This is very weak protection.

It requires a finding of "justified" yet there is no legal entity that does that. A jury determines if there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and a grand jury determines if there is probable cause for a trial. Only a matter of time before it is pierced.

Note it also only protects the defendants "use of force or deadly force". Does it protect others who did not use force but were there and contributed in some way?

Be careful out there.

 

[Renegade]

A former law professor began a class on self defense by asking how many of us knew any deaf mutes in prison. He then stated the reason - they didn't give evidence that could used against themselves. As recent court actions have shown, the DA will use everything available to get a conviction.

In fairness, I do not know any deaf mutes outside of prison either.

 

[toddnjoyce]

This is very weak protection.

It requires a finding of "justified" yet there is no legal entity that does that. A jury determines if there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and a grand jury determines if there is probable cause for a trial. Only a matter of time before it is pierced.

Concur. I guess a sound defense addressing how Ch 9 elements were met would be the basis for a motion to dismiss. If it’s questionable, then I would guess the judge would let the jury decide.

…Note it also only protects the defendants "use of force or deadly force". Does it protect others who did not use force but were there and contributed in some way?

Be careful out there.

I don’t know.

 

[Fletcherjl]

Gabe Suarez does a series of classes about Killing Within the Law. Definitely worth the money.

 

[seeker_two]

After the Rittenhouse incident, I'm not even sure it's wise to stick around to wait for the police. If you leave, the police may not even bother looking for you. If they do, you can have your lawyer negotiate your surrender.

 

[mmeece]

After the Rittenhouse incident, I'm not even sure it's wise to stick around to wait for the police. If you leave, the police may not even bother looking for you. If they do, you can have your lawyer negotiate your surrender.

I agree. I think in most cases it would be better to go home and contact your attorney to determine what happens next.

 

[Axxe55]

After the Rittenhouse incident, I'm not even sure it's wise to stick around to wait for the police. If you leave, the police may not even bother looking for you. If they do, you can have your lawyer negotiate your surrender.

I agree. I think in most cases it would be better to go home and contact your attorney to determine what happens next.

Personally, I think leaving the scene would be a very bad idea for several reasons, even if you are negotiating turning yourself over to the authorities through your attorney.

First the investigators will be much more suspicious, and be very likely to discount anything you have to say in regards to the event that happened. They might also assume you used the time to destroy or tamper with evidence related to the event.

Second, if it makes it's way to trial, and that is then going to be very likely, the prosecutor is going to use that to his or her advantage in making you look bad for leaving and not staying until LE arrived on scene.

 

[Axxe55]

I agree. I think in most cases it would be better to go home and contact your attorney to determine what happens next.

BTW, welcome to TGT.

Stop over in the Intro Section and say hello to everyone.

 

[mmeece]

Personally, I think leaving the scene would be a very bad idea for several reasons, even if you are negotiating turning yourself over to the authorities through your attorney.

First the investigators will be much more suspicious, and be very likely to discount anything you have to say in regards to the event that happened. They might also assume you used the time to destroy or tamper with evidence related to the event.

Second, if it makes it's way to trial, and that is then going to be very likely, the prosecutor is going to use that to his or her advantage in making you look bad for leaving and not staying until LE arrived on scene.

I understand where you're coming from, but in reality, if they had enough of a case to convict you of something unlawful in the shooting then anything additional would be of little consequence. If you were exonerated and/or the shooting was deemed to be self-defense then I highly doubt they would pursue charges for leaving the scene.

 

[Axxe55]

I understand where you're coming from, but in reality, if they had enough of a case to convict you of something unlawful in the shooting then anything additional would be of little consequence. If you were exonerated and/or the shooting was deemed to be self-defense then I highly doubt they would pursue charges for leaving the scene.

Look at another possible scenario that IMO makes leaving the scene a bad idea.

What if the person that attacked you and you shot, was only injured? Guess who is getting the tell their side of the story to the cops first?

It ain't you. And they might even assume that you are the assailant the guy you shot, is the victim.

 

[mmeece]

Look at another possible scenario that IMO makes leaving the scene a bad idea.

What if the person that attacked you and you shot, was only injured? Guess who is getting the tell their side of the story to the cops first?

It ain't you. And they might even assume that you are the assailant the guy you shot, is the victim.

I'd argue that I left when the threat was neutralized and I used no more force than necessary to allow me to leave. Could actually go in your favor if presented correctly.

 

[vmax]

I have thought about this very situation a lot
And I pretty much have a prepared statement that I think I will tell any police officer who shows up after I'm involved in a self defense shooting

"The mother fucker had it coming "

 

[Renegade]

I agree. I think in most cases it would be better to go home and contact your attorney to determine what happens next.

In almost all cases that would be a mistake.

If you are a fugitive, there is little your lawyer can do. It is not going to be a "negotiation". Worst case, you were ID'd and now your house is swatted.

If you think you must leave for safety fine, but go to the nearest PD and turn yourself in and lawyer up.

 

[Axxe55]

I'd argue that I left when the threat was neutralized and I used no more force than necessary to allow me to leave. Could actually go in your favor if presented correctly.

I happen to disagree. I see lot's of downside and no upside in leaving the scene after shooting someone.

Once you leave the scene,every thing you do, or say becomes suspect to the investigators and the prosecutor. And I can just about guarantee the prosecutor is going to use your actions against you in a trial to portray you as being the bad guy because he thinks you had something to hide was the reason you left.

I'm sorry, I just can't see how any defense attorney is going to be able to make that look good to a jury.

 

[Axxe55]

In almost all cases that would be a mistake.

If you are a fugitive, there is little your lawyer can do. It is not going to be a "negotiation". Worst case, you were ID'd and now your house is swatted.

If you think you must leave for safety fine, but go to the nearest PD and turn yourself in and lawyer up.

^^^^This!^^^^

In fear for your safety would be the only reason to leave and going to the nearest LE station is excellent advice.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I understand where you're coming from, but in reality, if they had enough of a case to convict you of something unlawful in the shooting then anything additional would be of little consequence. If you were exonerated and/or the shooting was deemed to be self-defense then I highly doubt they would pursue charges for leaving the scene.

You are convicted or exonerated on more than fact.

A prosecutor would/should attempt to paint your casual leaving the scene as "you knew you did wrong" or "you thought so little of killing someone that you could carry on as if nothing happened"

You are convicted or exonerated based on the jury's opinion of the facts.

There are times and places you may be wise to not tarry after a shooting, even a good one, but my non legal advice is to stick around and let the cops know you want to cooperate once your lawyer arrives. Me personally I likely would give a carefully worded statement that was short and sweet like "he attacked me and I thought he was going to kill me so I shot him to protect myself".

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[mmeece]

^^^^This!^^^^

In fear for your safety would be the only reason to leave and going to the nearest LE station is excellent advice.

Of course the first and only statement would be that I feared for my life, which is why I both fired the weapon and why I left. If there are multiple witnesses then there is no sense in leaving(unless they would put you in danger), as there are people to testify to what happened. If not, I think I'd prefer to engage law enforcement on my own terms after the fact. I think you have to be realistic about the type of interaction that would lead to this scenario. It would be an assault, attempted robbery, carjacking, etc in an isolated place perpetrated by someone who would likely be known to law enforcement and not likely to be viewed as an innocent victim.

 

[Renegade]

Of course the first and only statement would be that I feared for my life,

That would be another mistake.

See what cycleguy wrote for a something short and sweet. And I would not even admit I shot him.

 

[Axxe55]

You have the right to counsel, and a right to remain silent. I'd give the very bare minimum to LE, and that any further statements need to be with your attorney present.

 

[mmeece]

That would be another mistake.

See what cycleguy wrote for a something short and sweet. And I would not even admit I shot him.

Actually my statement is exactly what most experts tell you to say. I would not admit that I shot anyone either.