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ATF-41P Final Rule

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    TGT Addict
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    Mar 28, 2008
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    Removing CLEO for individuals is a win, everything else is a loss.

    Yes.

    You also mentioned being single, so a Trust wasn't your option. But for other singles it may be.

    Example:
    Being single, no spouse or kids, some folks have chosen to go the Trust route and named one responsible person in that Trust so that in the event of their death, the named person can safely inherit/take possession of the deceased NFA items when they clean out their home, without risking a felony charge and keep/sell/surrender said NFA item at their own decision to remain in or leave the NFA game (outside the time parameters of the "estate" condition).

    With this Final Rule, that named person has to go through all the hoops of fingerprinting, back ground check and notification, as if they themselves are standing at the counter or computer making that purchase/application, even if they have absolutely nothing to do with or are remotely near to the purchase, possession and use of the NFA items on a normal daily basis.

    That's a load of crap.


    Additional scenario:
    Same single person traveling to the named person's residence and bringing NFA items, for all legal purposes, on say, a holiday or vacation, and secures the NFA item in named person's safe when the firearm isn't in use. Then the single person departs the residence to go about daily activities while in town, the named person is in legal possession. The named person, for the simple ability of being in legal possession of an NFA item when the primary owner is not around, has to go through all the hoops when an NFA item is being purchased by the single person at all other times. Even if they don't live in the same zip code, even if they don't talk on a daily basis, this named person has to maintain their proof of eligibility when the single person applies for purchase/build of an NFA item, for the simple fact they are listed in the Trust (which already contains eligibility requirements).

    That's a load of crap.


    It was a load of crap from the beginning when the comment section was open. It's a load of crap now that the Final Rule has come out.



    I don't see it as a win since it helps 40% and hurts 60%.

    That's going off of the number of trusts and 40% of individuals being based on information posted earlier in this thread and unverified.

    But now consider that trusts generally have a least 2 names on them. Mine has 3. But let's use 2 per trust so nobody cries foul.


    Now we have double the number of people effected who use trusts vs individual. For ever 40 people this helps, it hurts 120 people. I'd bet those 3 to 1 numbers are pretty conservative.

    I'm having difficulty finding a true "win" in this. Congrats to those who have difficulty with signatures, but our state reps could have fixed that issue at the state level.

    Totally agree on all points.

    And all due to CLEOs refusing individual signoff for eligible persons.
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    Renegade

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    Yes.

    You also mentioned being single, so a Trust wasn't your option. But for other singles it may be.

    Example:
    Being single, no spouse or kids, some folks have chosen to go the Trust route and named one responsible person in that Trust so that in the event of their death, the named person can safely inherit/take possession of the deceased NFA items when they clean out their home, without risking a felony charge and keep/sell/surrender said NFA item at their own decision to remain in or leave the NFA game (outside the time parameters of the "estate" condition).

    With this Final Rule, that named person has to go through all the hoops of fingerprinting, back ground check and notification, as if they themselves are standing at the counter or computer making that purchase/application, even if they have absolutely nothing to do with or are remotely near to the purchase, possession and use of the NFA items on a normal daily basis.

    That's a load of crap.


    Additional scenario:
    Same single person traveling to the named person's residence and bringing NFA items, for all legal purposes, on say, a holiday or vacation, and secures the NFA item in named person's safe when the firearm isn't in use. Then the single person departs the residence to go about daily activities while in town, the named person is in legal possession. The named person, for the simple ability of being in legal possession of an NFA item when the primary owner is not around, has to go through all the hoops when an NFA item is being purchased by the single person at all other times. Even if they don't live in the same zip code, even if they don't talk on a daily basis, this named person has to maintain their proof of eligibility when the single person applies for purchase/build of an NFA item, for the simple fact they are listed in the Trust (which already contains eligibility requirements).

    That's a load of crap.


    It was a load of crap from the beginning when the comment section was open. It's a load of crap now that the Final Rule has come out.





    Totally agree on all points.

    And all due to CLEOs refusing individual signoff for eligible persons.

    Example 1 is incorrect analysis. Beneficiaries do no go through that while trust is in progress.

    Scenario 1 is silly paranoia easily overcome with trigger lock.

    I myself use LLC for NFA as it is better than trust in almost every way.
     

    Shorts

    TGT Addict
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    Example 1 is incorrect analysis. Beneficiaries do no go through that while trust is in progress.

    A Trustee or CoTrustee, not a Bene.

    Scenario 1 is silly paranoia easily overcome with trigger lock.
    An NFA item must stay with the registered owner or a person named on the trust, no?
    Not about use, but possession. Even if the person is not prohibited from owning firearms, it still cannot be left behind in their control unless the registered owner is there. :confused: ETA: Well...if it's paranoia, good I guess that the scenario is unrealistic.
     
    Last edited:

    Renegade

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    All officers of an LLC have to go through the fingerprint/background check thing now as well, right?

    Under the new system yes. I do not see anyway around this Individual, LLC, Trust.

    The best move is buy everything you want right now, get in before the rules change. Then "freeze" the trust as is so RP paperwork is not required. Any new items go in a new trust.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    May 14, 2008
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    Under the new system yes. I do not see anyway around this Individual, LLC, Trust.

    The best move is buy everything you want right now, get in before the rules change. Then "freeze" the trust as is so RP paperwork is not required. Any new items go in a new trust.

    I was just going to ask if this affects existing trusts, or only new ones going forward.
    I hope this is the answer to my question.
     

    J. Fred

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    Nov 10, 2011
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    Devil's Backbone,RR32
    I would hope after the dust settles on this new rule that they see there is no need for prints/photos of everyone with every new item. Maybe if a new member to a Trust or such then a new set of prints/photos .
     
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