Atf rule banning private sales requires FFL rumored for fall.

[toddnjoyce]

This is pretty much the way I see it. So, my question is, are they going to issue millions of FFL’s so we can acquire, sell and trade firearms and enhance our private collections? I doubt it. For years one of their goals was to deny or revoke licenses to small home dealers because they didn’t do a significant amount of business.

ATF will point to the ‘personal collection’ carveout and let you attempt to use that as a defense at trial.

The way this rule is written, with a presumption of guilt, will be litigated all the way to SCOTUS. ATF will state they simply wrote a rule that implements what is codified law, so it’s not out of the realm of possibilities that relevant portions of BPSCA will be declared unconstitutional. But that’s a long road to travel.

 

[10-96inTexas]

So……guilty until proven innocent?

 

[Paul Saver]

How DARE they pick that day.

Elaborate please.

 

[Paul Saver]

Honestly, it’s more about making everyone who doesn’t hold an FFL and transfers a firearm into a person who is dealing without a license.

The way the rule is written, if I did not hold am FFL and I sold a firearm, even using an FFL to do the transfer, I would still be considered as engaged in the business.

I’m not even certain it would be legal to consign a gun to an FFL for the sale.

IF... We decide it is uncomfortably necessary to part (sell) 1 or more of the firearms I legally own... Sell them straight up to the FFL dealer. Can't get in trouble for that can you?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

IF... We decide it is uncomfortably necessary to part (sell) 1 or more of the firearms I legally own... Sell them straight up to the FFL dealer. Can't get in trouble for that can you?

Probably won't get as much money, either....

 

[AKM47]

When will the lawsuits begin

 

[benenglish]

When will the lawsuits begin

May 20, I assume.

 

[majormadmax]

It gets worse...

 

[Rhino]

Elaborate please.

It's personal, lol.

 

[toddnjoyce]

So……guilty until proven innocent?

Kirk does a good job condensing the rule. It’s 20mins at 1x with fluff and fuller, but worth the watch. The key phrase in the rule is ATFs presumption that any sale is done predominantly to earn a profit; ATF says you don’t have to actually earn profit, instead one must only have some intent to profit in tangible or intangible ways and then goes on to provide a non-inclusive list of things that proves you intended to profit, whether monetarily or not. If PEP is ATF’s presumption, then you’re already illegally engaged in dealing and it’s up to you to prove otherwise.

It almost sounds as if the personal collection carveout is going to only be provable if you’ve got a C&R.

IF... We decide it is uncomfortably necessary to part (sell) 1 or more of the firearms I legally own... Sell them straight up to the FFL dealer. Can't get in trouble for that can you?

If you’re the seller, the rule requires you to prove you don’t require an FFL to sell a firearm. This is what I mean by presumption of guilt.

 

[Bozz10mm]

IF... We decide it is uncomfortably necessary to part (sell) 1 or more of the firearms I legally own... Sell them straight up to the FFL dealer. Can't get in trouble for that can you?

If your intent wasn't to make a profit, you'll be okay. But the ATF decides if you intended to make a profit, not you.

 

[D0ntTr3@d0nM3]

What just happened in NC doesn't help with this either. Biden will go on a propaganda frenzy with it. Of course starting with a story about the time he lived in NC and someone very close to him was shot by a white guy who couldn't legally possess a firearm.

 

[toddnjoyce]

If your intent wasn't to make a profit, you'll be okay. But the ATF decides if you intended to make a profit, not you.

And the deck is stacked against you.

 

[TheDan]

Maybe now is the time I should dump a bunch of guns, at least the "project guns" that, realistically, I'm never going to finish.

Hmmm.

I wonder how many people are thinking the same thing? I haven't really been paying attention to listings to know if they've increased recently or not.

 

[D0ntTr3@d0nM3]

What just happened in NC doesn't help with this either. Biden will go on a propaganda frenzy with it. Of course starting with a story about the time he lived in NC and someone very close to him was shot by a white guy who couldn't legally possess a firearm.

@Eastexasrick I'm not saying what some crazy person does should affect our rights in any way. Law abiding citizens in no way shape or form should ever have to pay for the actions of criminals. I am saying Biden will jump at the chance to exploit a tragedy to make his case or further his cause. The dems only ever seem to do this when the shooting involves a white person. The last part was just a joke because Biden always makes up stories to try and relate to whoever he is talking about, or trying to pander to.

 

[Rhino]

If your intent wasn't to make a profit, you'll be okay. But the ATF decides if you intended to make a profit, not you.

And you can bet 100% that they won't account for inflation.

 

[jetcycles]

I'm waiting until the rule takes effect to sell a rifle. Fukc the BATFE.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[majormadmax]

Kirk does a good job condensing the rule. It’s 20mins at 1x with fluff and fuller, but worth the watch.

I'm a big fan of his videos, and usually skip over the advertising at the beginning (heck, if it was a sponsor I could spend money at, I probably would!).

Every gun rights lobby should be trying to hire this guy! He easily translates legalese to knuckle draggers like myself!

 

[DougC]

Read more from the Truth about Guns blog and Iraqveteran8888.

Eric Blandford, better known as Iraqveteran8888, recently discussed a big change in gun laws. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has a new rule that changes the definition of who is considered a gun dealer. This rule could affect many gun owners, and not in a good way.

From a legal standpoint, this adjustment in definition creates a precarious situation for ordinary citizens. The rule places the burden of proof on the accused, presuming them to be dealers unless they can demonstrate otherwise. In a twist of legal logic, the mere act of advertising or marketing a firearm could thrust an individual into the realm of gun dealership.

For the everyday gun owner, the implications are stark. Selling a firearm to liquidate personal assets or due to financial necessity could unexpectedly align them with regulatory scrutiny. This is not merely a bureaucratic hurdle but a profound infringement on personal freedoms and property rights.

 

[V-Tach]

It is happening......................26 States have filed suit.............