Understand now? Sorry.
Sent from somewhere I shouldn't be, doing something I shouldn't be doing, and enjoying the heck out of it.
Bill of sale?
- Thread starter Nates0819
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Understand now? Sorry.
Sent from somewhere I shouldn't be, doing something I shouldn't be doing, and enjoying the heck out of it.
Some subjects have been beat to death to the point where the sheer volume of threads, and hundreds of opinions contained within them, makes it almost useless to search for the answer - or in some cases even ask the question at all. I would suggest that this particular subject be made a sticky someplace. Sometimes it's easier to just answer the question (again) than bitch about how many times it's already been answered.
Jeez, seems like almost every thread in the past few months has turned into a name-calling shitstorm if it goes for more than 10-20 posts or so. I'm starting to think we need to do a group buy on Midol for this board, or maybe Prep-H with all the cases of red-ass going around lately.
Jeez, seems like almost every thread in the past few months has turned into a name-calling shitstorm if it goes for more than 10-20 posts or so. I'm starting to think we need to do a group buy on Midol for this board, or maybe Prep-H with all the cases of red-ass going around lately.
I agree.
Haha yes I understand now
fgarcia3441
Active Member
Thanks for the post, it was turning to be a boring Monday night until this.
ok, well first off im new to texas. moved here like 9 days ago. its easier for me to post a thread and read some comments than search the site. that aggrivates you? im sorry. I'm chasing around a 2 year old right now. no time to search. If talking about this upsets you, dont comment lol. its simple.not being a dick, just a realist.
You've been selling stuff on this site for months. Just moved here 9 days ago? Really?
RetArmySgt
Glad to be back.
With prices as high as they have been we haven't been able to take our aggression out on the range, some of us have some pent up anger and it happens to show in threads.
Well this seems to be an interesting topic for me to put my two cents in. For the record, I'm aware of current Texas laws regarding the sale of firearms between private individuals. In a nutshell, these are my thoughts:
- If there is no paper trail which connects the gun to me, then I'll sell it without a bill of sale.
- If there is a paper trail connecting me to the gun, then I'll complete a bill of sale upon selling the gun.
For instance, if I purchased a brand new Glock from Cabela's last year and I decide to sell it today, I will require a bill of sale. I would do this to protect me in the event that the firearm were used in a crime and seized by the police after I had sold it. One of the things that a police investigator will do when working a shooting, especially if they have the firearm but no solid identity of the offender, is to run an ATF trace on the firearm. The initial trace will show where the manufacturer shipped/sold the firearm after production (most likely a distributor, but maybe directly to the dealer). Once the FFL dealer is identified, then that dealer can trace the firearm to the person who they sold it to. So let's say we're talking about my Glock from Cabela's. The investigator will contact me to determine if I am still the owner of the Glock. Now at this point, I could simply tell the investigator that I sold the Glock to someone I met through Armslist and that I don't know his name. Depending on the circumstances of the shooting, my statement to the investigator might not be enough to scratch me off the suspect list. (Remember, the investigator's job is to be thorough, and people do lie to the police, so the investigator *should* look into me further and try to prove/disprove my alibi if I have one.) However, if I'm able to produce a signed and dated bill of sale to the investigator then that helps to back up my statement and provides the investigator with another lead. Along with the bill of sale, I would also have copies of any pertinent emails and/or telephone numbers linking me to the person who I sold my Glock to.
The above scenario is one that is very possible and one that I have gone through myself back in my days as a police detective. Although it's true that the bill of sale might not be notarized, it does not mean that it is of no investigatory value and that it cannot be proven that the seller and buyer had actual contact. Paper is an excellent source to obtain latent finger/palm prints from. The natural oils that you leave behind on something such as glass simply absorbs into the paper and will remain there for decades. Using ninhydrin spray and a heat source will develop those latent fingerprints fairly easily.
Obtaining a bill of sale may seem like overkill to many people, and in many cases it may be just that. The chances of a firearm you sold being used in a crime are quite small, unless you're actively trying to sell to known criminals. However, I guess because of what I've seen and where I've been, I would rather have some level of protection (however small) in the event that my name turned up in a murder investigation due to a firearm being traced back to me.
- If there is no paper trail which connects the gun to me, then I'll sell it without a bill of sale.
- If there is a paper trail connecting me to the gun, then I'll complete a bill of sale upon selling the gun.
For instance, if I purchased a brand new Glock from Cabela's last year and I decide to sell it today, I will require a bill of sale. I would do this to protect me in the event that the firearm were used in a crime and seized by the police after I had sold it. One of the things that a police investigator will do when working a shooting, especially if they have the firearm but no solid identity of the offender, is to run an ATF trace on the firearm. The initial trace will show where the manufacturer shipped/sold the firearm after production (most likely a distributor, but maybe directly to the dealer). Once the FFL dealer is identified, then that dealer can trace the firearm to the person who they sold it to. So let's say we're talking about my Glock from Cabela's. The investigator will contact me to determine if I am still the owner of the Glock. Now at this point, I could simply tell the investigator that I sold the Glock to someone I met through Armslist and that I don't know his name. Depending on the circumstances of the shooting, my statement to the investigator might not be enough to scratch me off the suspect list. (Remember, the investigator's job is to be thorough, and people do lie to the police, so the investigator *should* look into me further and try to prove/disprove my alibi if I have one.) However, if I'm able to produce a signed and dated bill of sale to the investigator then that helps to back up my statement and provides the investigator with another lead. Along with the bill of sale, I would also have copies of any pertinent emails and/or telephone numbers linking me to the person who I sold my Glock to.
The above scenario is one that is very possible and one that I have gone through myself back in my days as a police detective. Although it's true that the bill of sale might not be notarized, it does not mean that it is of no investigatory value and that it cannot be proven that the seller and buyer had actual contact. Paper is an excellent source to obtain latent finger/palm prints from. The natural oils that you leave behind on something such as glass simply absorbs into the paper and will remain there for decades. Using ninhydrin spray and a heat source will develop those latent fingerprints fairly easily.
Obtaining a bill of sale may seem like overkill to many people, and in many cases it may be just that. The chances of a firearm you sold being used in a crime are quite small, unless you're actively trying to sell to known criminals. However, I guess because of what I've seen and where I've been, I would rather have some level of protection (however small) in the event that my name turned up in a murder investigation due to a firearm being traced back to me.
But your BOS is no different from telling the officer or detective verbally that you sold the firearm.
Right now, I could commit some crime with one of my guns, throw it in the river or something, and then type up a BOS with some made up name in the "buyer" area, and have a friend sign the bogus name to it.
Of course my fingerprints will be on it. It's my BOS, right?!
Right now, I could commit some crime with one of my guns, throw it in the river or something, and then type up a BOS with some made up name in the "buyer" area, and have a friend sign the bogus name to it.
Of course my fingerprints will be on it. It's my BOS, right?!
The point that I was making regarding the bill of sale that *I* would have would include additional info that I would keep with it as well, such as copies of emails, telephone numbers, etc that would support the validity of the bill of sale. As for fingerprints, I was referring to having the buyers fingerprints on the paper to show that the bill of sale in my possession had been handled by the buyer. Basically, it's making sure that the buyer actually grasps the paper bill of sale as well as signing it. This is how I protect myself. Just passing along my thoughts on the matter. Anyone else is free to handle firearm transactions any way they want as long as Texas law is followed.
- Jul 1, 2011
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Silver and Mr. Ed I believe (RIP)
Wassup lalong? I was just wondering about you yesteday, ya awite
Wassup lalong? I was just wondering about you yesteday, ya awite
Last time I checked it was 100% legal to sell items in Texas from another state. Ups is an amazing attribute to society.
Mexican_Hippie
TGT Addict
fgarcia3441
Active Member
Not a booring Tuesday either.
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