Chris Dorner Shootout

[Texanjoker]

I don't know about most CA cops, but I would be willing to bet LA cops most likely are.

I lose respect for LE that will stand behind known corrupt departments just because they are fellow LE.

I await the investigation, and if those cops did a bad shoot i would bet they are at minimum fired if not prosecuted. However with no facts out one cant form any opinion. I did read in one place the news ladies were driving at night with no lights on. I wonder what else they may have done that caused the hyper vigilant cops to open fire?

 

[General Zod]

I did read in one place the news ladies were driving at night with no lights on. I wonder what else they may have done that caused the hyper vigilant cops to open fire?

Opening fire without identifying who's being shot at, with no attempt made to make such identification, with no attempt made to communicate...that just isn't acceptable from any LEO. When the police become a threat to public safety something is very wrong. "Hyper vigilant" should not equate to "trigger happy".

 

[Renegade]

The key point here, and why I posted the A/V, was this was not a hostage standoff. This was a rolling gunfight.

They did not burn out the guy in the middle of a truce/negotiations. He was shooting at them (had just shot two deputies at the cabin), and they (from what I gather), were using a vehicle to de-construct the cabin. Simultaneously they were tossing smoke (to provide cover to get wounded out), as well as tear gas hoping to flush him out.

 

[Renegade]

Opening fire without identifying who's being shot at, with no attempt made to make such identification, with no attempt made to communicate...that just isn't acceptable from any LEO. When the police become a threat to public safety something is very wrong. "Hyper vigilant" should not equate to "trigger happy".

They were shooting at the guy who was shooting at them. The same guy who the dead officer ID'd as Dorner a few minutes earlier.

When you are in the middle of an active gunfight, you do not ask for photo ID or try to open lines of communication.

ETA:

Disregard above. Failed to read context of what was quoted.

 

[itchin]

He was talking about the 2 lady's gunned down delivering papers not the shootout.

 

[Renegade]

He was talking about the 2 lady's gunned down delivering papers not the shootout.

Reading FAIL on my part. In that incident I am in agreement with him.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Actually you can use force to effect an arrest up to and including using deadly force. In this case deadly force was justified.

In this particular case lethal force might be justified (I wasn't there so I don't know all the details). Obviously if the guy was shooting at LEOs they should be shooting back. I simply said that executing someone would be illegal. I was speaking to the generic question "Is it against the law to intentionally burn a structure with a suspect inside?", and I answered that correctly. NO, its not legal to intentionally burn the building down to flush out a suspect.

I also said that LEO can't burn down someone's property on purpose without their permission. Again, I'm not saying this particular fire was set on purpose, but NO you can't go torch someone's house because a bad guy is inside EVEN IF YOU'RE LEO. Its an especially bad idea if you don't know who's inside the structure.

 

[matefrio]

Good or bad what happened at the cabin was an execution. Guy was pinned between a fire that was intentionally set and a hail of bullets.

Not saying he didn't earn it but not sugar coating what happened.

 

[itchin]

How do you know?

 

[Texas1911]

How do you know?

I'm kinda laughing at the irony of your screen name in this instance. (I know that's not what it means though)

The entire situation is a legal and moral dilemma. I can see how it'd be VERY difficult to maintain an acceptable line through the entire encounter. On one hand you have the "hero" whom is supposed to uphold Due Process and a higher morality, and on the other you have a "villain" whom has shown his will and power to kill and hurt people.

I think we often want to look at the hero with one shade and the villain with another. Fact is, this entire event and the events leading up to this are full of emotion and full of legal ambiguity. We don't have the sufficient information at hand to wager one way or another. More information will come out, and that may very well be coached information or biased, but we can only presume at this point.

 

[itchin]

Lol . Yeah I registered to find a shooting range in Victoria. Didn't think I'd stick around because most internet forums suck.

 

[Stumpy]

I don't know every detail of the Dorner situation, but the whole thing stinks. LAPD handled it horribly.

 

[Texas1911]

Lol . Yeah I registered to find a shooting range in Victoria. Didn't think I'd stick around because most internet forums suck.

I guess ours sucks less!

Win!

 

[SIG_Fiend]

*Update*

Supposed audio of police ordering and discussing burning the cabin:



If this is real audio, I'd say it's pretty clear this was intentional and not a freak occurrence.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Here's somethin else kinda funny about it all-

So this is talking about his wallet and drivers license was found in the burnt out cabin along with his charred body. How did a wallet survive but not his body?
Christopher Dorner License: Driver's ID Found Alongside Burnt Body In Cabin

Then, there's this tidbit that was reported as well:
"Dorner's wallet, including his identification cards, was also found at the San Ysidro Point of Entry near the U.S.-Mexico border, the Los Angeles Times reported."

Read more: Search for fugitive ex-LAPD cop Christopher Dorner creates traffic problems along border | Fox News

So how many wallets does this guy have? I, along with most men I know, only have use for one wallet. This combined with them setting the fire on purpose....I dunno-somethin is smelling funny here. I have an idea, but I'm not gonna put it out there just yet.

 

[JimBobKelley]

Two wallets found in different locations, one of which was a burned down cabin? That just doesn't add up.

I have never heard of a wallet with a fire rating.

 

[Renegade]

Two wallets found in different locations, one of which was a burned down cabin? That just doesn't add up.

I have never heard of a wallet with a fire rating.

You would be surprised what survives and does not survive a house fire. Ask a firefighter.

 

[itchin]

It was a wallet in one place and Id and badge holder in another. The term “burner" describes a teargas grenade that burns off teargas. I guess you can get more out of it solidified then burnt to convert to tear gas. this is just a guess because I know nothing about tear gas.

 

[M. Sage]

*Update*

Supposed audio of police ordering and discussing burning the cabin:



If this is real audio, I'd say it's pretty clear this was intentional and not a freak occurrence.

There's a grab off a news station that was playing scanner traffic (illegal, IIRC) and you could clearly hear "burn it down" on one of the transmissions.

Also; lots of full auto fire coming from the cops' side in that fight. Gah, so much wrong with this situation.

 

[M. Sage]

Wrong Austins chief is ex CA highway patrol. That clown in the video is an embarrassment to real cops everywhere. Lots of TX cops come from CA. I know I did. I also obey the law, follow the constitution and treat people right. CA LE is different as well. In CA cops are not revenue generators like many small TX cities require. I pulled the stats one time in my city here in TX and could not believe the # of tickets they write. I wonder when they have time to eat?

Hmm, I thought he was LAPD. Honestly, CHP isn't any better...

The revenue cops in TX towns needs to stop. No disagreement here.