Concealed Carrier Rushes Into The Fray - Gunned Down After Preventing Further Casualties

[Bozz10mm]

Now they are saying that Hurley, the good guy, picked up and was holding the bad guy's AR 15 when the officer arrived. If so, that was a huge mistake. I wonder if they have dash cam or body cam video. As in a lot of these events, the details don't start to emerge until later.

 

[jrbfishn]

Now they are saying that Hurley, the good guy, picked up and was holding the bad guy's AR 15 when the officer arrived. If so, that was a huge mistake. I wonder if they have dash cam or body cam video. As in a lot of these events, the details don't start to emerge until later.

If that is true, especially depending on his actions when the cops showed up, that was a very dumb move.
I freely admit that I am not nor have ever been a cop of any kind. But I have had at least some training in procedure by several detectives.
Rule one; make sure the scene is safe.
Rule two; NEVER touch anything until it is documented unless you have ZERO other choice.
The position of the bad guy's weapon could just as easily been the difference between a hero and a vigilante killer.
Or worse, getting shot by mistake.
I was always tought that protecting those that can not is a noble cause. But never disturb a crime scene unless it will save a life.


Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Glenn B]

If that is true, especially depending on his actions when the cops showed up, that was a very dumb move.
I freely admit that I am not nor have ever been a cop of any kind. But I have had at least some training in procedure by several detectives.
Rule one; make sure the scene is safe.
Rule two; NEVER touch anything until it is documented unless you have ZERO other choice.
The position of the bad guy's weapon could just as easily been the difference between a hero and a vigilante killer.
Or worse, getting shot by mistake.
I was always tought that protecting those that can not is a noble cause. But never disturb a crime scene unless it will save a life.


Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Dumb move heh? So, Mr. Hurley shoots the bad guy who drops and winds up falling atop his AR-15 and you think it a dumb move to remove the weapon from his reach and to secure it from anyone else. Even if the bad guy was dead - cops would secure his weapon and would handcuff him. For all we know, that is what happened, Hurley may have been in the act of securing the weapon, and the cop who shot Hurley showed up while that was unfolding. Of course, it could have been different, maybe Mr. Hurley inadvertently turned the weapon on the officer or the officer perceived that he pointed the weapon threateningly and then shot him. Not enough info now to be able to know what took place in totality.

We probably will never know the whole truth unless there is clear surveillance video, of both Mr.Hurley, and the officer who shot him, from the shopping center or from someone with a phone video (someone already stated there were no body cams in use by that PD). That is because by now the officer who shot him very likely has been fully and effectively coached (by fellow officers, by police department brass, by his union reps and by his attorney) to give a version of events that will exonerate that officer and that will show Mr. Hurley as having made some mistake and show the officer as having done everything right. If you think otherwise - I think you live on another planet and I say that after having been in law enforcement for just over 32 years. Of course, the officer may have a conscience and be a truly honest man and tell the truth whether or not it shows it as a good shoot.

Note, I am not commenting on whether or not I think it was a good shoot (as in legally justifiable) by the officer - only the evidence and how it is presented (hopefully honestly) can show that one way or another. I will say this, even if shooting Mr.Hurley was a 'good shoot' in the regard of whether or not the officer was justified - it was a bad one when it comes down to it, obviosuly for Mr. Hurley and his loved ones and very probably will be a bad one for the officer. I say that in as much as the officer will live with it for the remainder of his life and very likely will second guess himself for a very long time unless even if he was fully justified to shoot Mr. Hurley. It is a bad situation to have to live with - for sure.

RIP Mr. Hurley - a true hero as I see him. If the officer was justified, then I wish him a swift and full mental recovery because if he was mentally healthy before the shoot - he will not remain so for long after the shoot. If he was not justified, then a long prison term maybe would be the order of the day and then again maybe not depending on the circumstances.

Has anyone heard of a fund raising effort for Mr. Hurley's family, I would like to make a modest donation.

 

[benenglish]

Thread needs a little cleaning so if your post is missing, blame me.

 

[jordanmills]

We have killed thousands of unarmed non-combatants over the past 2 decades; many children, nobody charged. War sucks.

From what I understand, several people were charged for war crimes in iraq. I can't easily find much in right leaning sources, since they presumably wouldn't have have instantly posted condemning speculation, and the left leaning sources take some effort to identify actual facts between the specious reasoning and accusations of baby rape and killing, so take these with a grain of salt (but remember that at least a little of it is probably true, things that can be objectively stated and clearly documented):

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/us-military-jury-acquits-soldier-of-war-crimes-in-iraq/1522147

http://www.consumersforpeace.org/pdf/war_crimes_iraq_101006.pdf

 

[oldag]

Tragic event....not sure it could have been avoided. Maybe the good guy could have stayed behind cover?....

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Might have still been behind cover but shot from behind by an officer. Don't know.

 

[oldag]

Dumb move heh? So, Mr. Hurley shoots the bad guy who drops and winds up falling atop his AR-15 and you think it a dumb move to remove the weapon from his reach and to secure it from anyone else. Even if the bad guy was dead - cops would secure his weapon and would handcuff him. For all we know, that is what happened, Hurley may have been in the act of securing the weapon, and the cop who shot Hurley showed up while that was unfolding. Of course, it could have been different, maybe Mr. Hurley inadvertently turned the weapon on the officer or the officer perceived that he pointed the weapon threateningly and then shot him. Not enough info now to be able to know what took place in totality.

We probably will never know the whole truth unless there is clear surveillance video, of both Mr.Hurley, and the officer who shot him, from the shopping center or from someone with a phone video (someone already stated there were no body cams in use by that PD). That is because by now the officer who shot him very likely has been fully and effectively coached (by fellow officers, by police department brass, by his union reps and by his attorney) to give a version of events that will exonerate that officer and that will show Mr. Hurley as having made some mistake and show the officer as having done everything right. If you think otherwise - I think you live on another planet and I say that after having been in law enforcement for just over 32 years. Of course, the officer may have a conscience and be a truly honest man and tell the truth whether or not it shows it as a good shoot.

Note, I am not commenting on whether or not I think it was a good shoot (as in legally justifiable) by the officer - only the evidence and how it is presented (hopefully honestly) can show that one way or another. I will say this, even if shooting Mr.Hurley was a 'good shoot' in the regard of whether or not the officer was justified - it was a bad one when it comes down to it, obviosuly for Mr. Hurley and his loved ones and very probably will be a bad one for the officer. I say that in as much as the officer will live with it for the remainder of his life and very likely will second guess himself for a very long time unless even if he was fully justified to shoot Mr. Hurley. It is a bad situation to have to live with - for sure.

RIP Mr. Hurley - a true hero as I see him. If the officer was justified, then I wish him a swift and full mental recovery because if he was mentally healthy before the shoot - he will not remain so for long after the shoot. If he was not justified, then a long prison term maybe would be the order of the day and then again maybe not depending on the circumstances.

Has anyone heard of a fund raising effort for Mr. Hurley's family, I would like to make a modest donation.

All good points.

 

[jordanmills]

Thread needs a little cleaning so if your post is missing, blame me.

Eh probably worth the loss if one of mine was caught in it.

 

[seeker_two]

Picking up a perp's weapon is a bad idea. If it needs to be secured, kicking it away or standing on it will work and keep your fingerprints off of it.

Also, if you see police coming, dropping your weapon and standing on it isn't a bad idea. Keeps other, unauthorized types from getting your gun.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[jordanmills]

Who said anything about looking down on civilians? No one looks down on civilians, but yeah in a call like this EVERYONE is a threat, especially guys with unknown intent and unknown training with guns out.

Those who do not understand the concept of fucking everything being a threat don't last long as a cop... If you go into any number of calls, even a "simple" traffic stop, with even a hint of complacency you can end up hurt or dead or get someone else hurt or killed.

Even someone asking me for directions is a threat, not a huge one, but still asking a question is a good way to approach someone while distracting them. I am looking at their hands, their waistline, for backpacks, for any odd bulges, is that a knife clip in their pocket? Who is with them? What are is the other people's demeanor? Where are they going? Is that a normal thing to do? Was their intended route odd? Are they nervous/cocky. Are their holes in their story that could be evasive? Yes, "hey, officer. How do I get to..." is a threat

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

Well, for starters, calling them "civilians" like police are not.

Even the way you present that narrative illustrates the problem. You're describing everyone as a threat. Not a potential threat. That's the mentality that gets innocent people killed.

 

[jordanmills]

Picking up a perp's weapon is a bad idea. If it needs to be secured, kicking it away or standing on it will work and keep your fingerprints off of it.

Also, if you see police coming, dropping your weapon and standing on it isn't a bad idea. Keeps other, unauthorized types from getting your gun.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

What if you don't see the police coming, and a uniformed officer does not challenge you before opening fire? I don't see any proof that's what happened here, but there's not proof of much else so it's in the realm of possibility. If we're talking hypotheticals, that's one to put in there too.

 

[gll]

Imagine the reaction if I, or you (if you are not a cop), had been the one who rushed to judgement at this scene and shot and killed the good guy... Even if he had picked up the bad guy's gun, if he wasn't pointing it to shoot, he deserved consideration before being shot. There is no indication that the cop who shot the good guy was in any danger, or was aware of anyone who was. JMO

 

[gdr_11]

Where is the body cam footage to go with the lawyer scrubbed public affairs comments?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Where is the body cam footage to go with the lawyer scrubbed public affairs comments?

Their PD won't have body cams until 2023....

 

[jrbfishn]

Dumb move heh? So, Mr. Hurley shoots the bad guy who drops and winds up falling atop his AR-15 and you think it a dumb move to remove the weapon from his reach and to secure it from anyone else. Even if the bad guy was dead - cops would secure his weapon and would handcuff him. For all we know, that is what happened, Hurley may have been in the act of securing the weapon, and the cop who shot Hurley showed up while that was unfolding. Of course, it could have been different, maybe Mr. Hurley inadvertently turned the weapon on the officer or the officer perceived that he pointed the weapon threateningly and then shot him. Not enough info now to be able to know what took place in totality.

We probably will never know the whole truth unless there is clear surveillance video, of both Mr.Hurley, and the officer who shot him, from the shopping center or from someone with a phone video (someone already stated there were no body cams in use by that PD). That is because by now the officer who shot him very likely has been fully and effectively coached (by fellow officers, by police department brass, by his union reps and by his attorney) to give a version of events that will exonerate that officer and that will show Mr. Hurley as having made some mistake and show the officer as having done everything right. If you think otherwise - I think you live on another planet and I say that after having been in law enforcement for just over 32 years. Of course, the officer may have a conscience and be a truly honest man and tell the truth whether or not it shows it as a good shoot.

Note, I am not commenting on whether or not I think it was a good shoot (as in legally justifiable) by the officer - only the evidence and how it is presented (hopefully honestly) can show that one way or another. I will say this, even if shooting Mr.Hurley was a 'good shoot' in the regard of whether or not the officer was justified - it was a bad one when it comes down to it, obviosuly for Mr. Hurley and his loved ones and very probably will be a bad one for the officer. I say that in as much as the officer will live with it for the remainder of his life and very likely will second guess himself for a very long time unless even if he was fully justified to shoot Mr. Hurley. It is a bad situation to have to live with - for sure.

RIP Mr. Hurley - a true hero as I see him. If the officer was justified, then I wish him a swift and full mental recovery because if he was mentally healthy before the shoot - he will not remain so for long after the shoot. If he was not justified, then a long prison term maybe would be the order of the day and then again maybe not depending on the circumstances.

Has anyone heard of a fund raising effort for Mr. Hurley's family, I would like to make a modest donation.

There is just so much wrong in that. If you were LE for 32 years you know that what LE does at at crime scene and what others do are 2 very different things. For a non LE to pick up guns at an active crime scene is generally a bad idea unless given no other choice but die.
There is a lot of things that took place that we don't know about. Why either of them did what they did. And may never know except that it ended tragically.
Personally, I think Hurley did the right thing by stopping the shooter. At the same time, I hope the cop was justified in his actions given what he thought the situation was.
And admitting that a cop will be coached to lie to save his ass, well, your credibility just went to crap. Explains what is wrong with NY.
I generally support LE. But not that kind.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[cycleguy2300]

Well, for starters, calling them "civilians" like police are not.

Even the way you present that narrative illustrates the problem. You're describing everyone as a threat. Not a potential threat. That's the mentality that gets innocent people killed.

I was simply using the words you used to describe non-police...

You error is not thinking EVERYONE is a threat. EVERYONE is a threat, its not all a big threat, or a threat that needs to be neutralized, but the threats must still be addressed even if that is just an acknowledgement of it. I think your error is due to lack of training and experience in critical incident management, but please correct me if I am wrong.

You being a threat doesn't mean you are a bad person, but on scene police don't know you from Adam and you showing up to looky-loo or not following commands makes it harder (meaning you are becoming the problem).

Not addressing threats is how people get complacent and complacency gets people hurt and killed.

I am sorry you are so triggered, by their being civilians and first-responders. What other words would you like to use?

Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

 

[Renegade]

From what I understand, several people were charged for war crimes in iraq.

I think we are splitting hairs here.

Can you shoot an Armed Afghan at an IPSC match? No.

Can you shoot an Armed Afghan on the battlefield? Yes.

Any more is overthinking it.

 

[avvidclif]

What if you don't see the police coming, and a uniformed officer does not challenge you before opening fire? I don't see any proof that's what happened here, but there's not proof of much else so it's in the realm of possibility. If we're talking hypotheticals, that's one to put in there too.

How many reverse gears do you have???

 

[Sam7sf]

This is getting silly. It happened. The guys gone. I’d hope all information becomes transparent. As a civilian I agree with cycleguy.

This world is insane. A cop who is always on guard is not a dick. Look at cycleguys history here: he’s not a dick. Pretty good dude has been my observation. As are most cops. Cops are just like any of one us except they are tasked with a real challenge for a job. And most start out just like us at 50-70 a year. I’d want 100-200 a year; no 300 a year with how nuts people are.

I love cops who engage with their community BUT the community is often infested with shit. Right now my community is alright but that’s only because I’m tucked away at a dead end in the country and my first responders are a mp.40 and a 78 sportsman in 30-06 if our lives are in danger. And as far as preventing my kid from being abducted we have Marshall who can keep up with an atv at full throttle and is a dog that will bite a perverts jewels off. This is the society we live in. People hurt others for no reason. They abduct people. list goes on. Society is long past the point that a cop can have his guard down. It was how many years ago that the trend of going up behind old people and knocking them out started? How many traffic stops can we see online that start ok then the cop sees a weapon aimed at him?

I will not argue with, debate, or put down a police officer for how to do his or her job.

 

[DoubleDuty]

A terrible outcome for this guy trying to do the right thing and for the cops. This deserves serious thought as to how each one of us might handle similar situations.