Coronavirus Epidemic, Part 2

toddnjoyce

TGT Addict
Sep 27, 2017
10,433
113
Boerne
Point of order. Y’all wonder why there is public distrust on all sides of this topic? A picture is worth a thousand words.



That was taken yesterday in the state capitol. Notice elected officials have exempted themselves from King Abbot’s order.

This is not an unusual self-exemption. Watch any White House propaganda conference. Notice the talking head does not wear a mask inside a federal building, in violation of her boss’ own Executive Order requiring it.

Local and federal officials around the nation have done a good job of stating the use of their lawful power to force public behavior change is based on science, then ignore that science themselves. Watch your local newscast; no masks there, either.

I’m not a scientist, but I have a hard time with do as I say, not as I do, especially when the sole argument being used to force compliance is “because, science”. Either the science applies equally to everybody, or it is not settled.

Then I take a look at Florida, where we spent a week last Thanksgiving and hasn’t had a mask mandate since last September and everybody knows all the retirees flock to. As of today, NY’s state wide cumulative death rate per 100,000 people is 59% higher than FL’s.

Let’s not just look at death rates, let’s also look at infection and hospitalization rates. The Tampa Bay Times did and partnered with politifact to do some research. You know what they found? Not much.

“...it’s hard to establish causation: Is it the loose regulation that helps reduce infection rates, or is it the low infection rates that allow for looser regulations?”

If causation can’t be established either way, that reinforces what I’ve said from the very beginning: if we think we know everything there is to be known with only the information we have today, then we are wrong, no matter what.

I have no doubt many people have died and many more have gotten sick. What nobody knows is how many people have actually contracted the virus. That’s pretty damn important because it establishes the numerator and without it, all the math and science being done is based on assumptions of what the numerator is.

I expect what will become known is that a whole host of factors from population density to overall health at time of infection and everything in between will have varying contributions to the outcomes.

But one thing is certain: it is a very rare thing in America for .gov to compel it’s free citizens to change their daily behaviors at the flip of a switch. The last time I can think of would have been the blackout orders before and during WWII. Amazingly enough, compliance then wasn’t quite as universal as you’d be led to think, even in places where it should have logically been.

In sum, if the science is as strong as it’s claimed to be, then let’s get serious about transparency around what factors are known to contribute to the various outcomes. Let those factors be openly argued in the court of public opinion. Explain why, in plain language, the disparity in rates occur despite similar regulatory environments, whether the be tight or loose.

But don’t tell do as I say, not as I do. That’s just cheap and disingenuous.
 

seeker_two

TGT Addict
Jul 1, 2008
4,501
113
Point of order. Y’all wonder why there is public distrust on all sides of this topic? A picture is worth a thousand words.



That was taken yesterday in the state capitol. Notice elected officials have exempted themselves from King Abbot’s order.

This is not an unusual self-exemption. Watch any White House propaganda conference. Notice the talking head does not wear a mask inside a federal building, in violation of her boss’ own Executive Order requiring it.

Local and federal officials around the nation have done a good job of stating the use of their lawful power to force public behavior change is based on science, then ignore that science themselves. Watch your local newscast; no masks there, either.

I’m not a scientist, but I have a hard time with do as I say, not as I do, especially when the sole argument being used to force compliance is “because, science”. Either the science applies equally to everybody, or it is not settled.

Then I take a look at Florida, where we spent a week last Thanksgiving and hasn’t had a mask mandate since last September and everybody knows all the retirees flock to. As of today, NY’s state wide cumulative death rate per 100,000 people is 59% higher than FL’s.

Let’s not just look at death rates, let’s also look at infection and hospitalization rates. The Tampa Bay Times did and partnered with politifact to do some research. You know what they found? Not much.

“...it’s hard to establish causation: Is it the loose regulation that helps reduce infection rates, or is it the low infection rates that allow for looser regulations?”

If causation can’t be established either way, that reinforces what I’ve said from the very beginning: if we think we know everything there is to be known with only the information we have today, then we are wrong, no matter what.

I have no doubt many people have died and many more have gotten sick. What nobody knows is how many people have actually contracted the virus. That’s pretty damn important because it establishes the numerator and without it, all the math and science being done is based on assumptions of what the numerator is.

I expect what will become known is that a whole host of factors from population density to overall health at time of infection and everything in between will have varying contributions to the outcomes.

But one thing is certain: it is a very rare thing in America for .gov to compel it’s free citizens to change their daily behaviors at the flip of a switch. The last time I can think of would have been the blackout orders before and during WWII. Amazingly enough, compliance then wasn’t quite as universal as you’d be led to think, even in places where it should have logically been.

In sum, if the science is as strong as it’s claimed to be, then let’s get serious about transparency around what factors are known to contribute to the various outcomes. Let those factors be openly argued in the court of public opinion. Explain why, in plain language, the disparity in rates occur despite similar regulatory environments, whether the be tight or loose.

But don’t tell do as I say, not as I do. That’s just cheap and disingenuous.
True. If masks worked, then politicians should be dropping dead by the thousands.....

....and the fact they are not makes me somewhat sad.....

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

bbbass

Baffler of the Brilliant
Sep 2, 2020
902
93
NE OR
In sum, if the science is as strong as it’s claimed to be, then let’s get serious about transparency around what factors are known to contribute to the various outcomes. Let those factors be openly argued in the court of public opinion. Explain why, in plain language, the disparity in rates occur despite similar regulatory environments, whether the be tight or loose.
AFAIK/IMO, the science is not strong nor well known. This is a totally new virus to scientists and they are struggling to play catch up. We still don't know a lot about it, tho we know more than we did, and new facts are learned every day that may contradict what they thought they knew before. That and the virus mutating.

I imagine the Spanish Flu was much the same. How long did it take for the world to get a handle on what was happening and how to deal with it back then?

But the stuff Fauci is spewing is brown and thin. And that of the guvs of D run states. Purely politically motivated with "science" as the leverage.
 

DubiousDan

TGT Addict
May 22, 2010
18,747
113
San Antonio
Then I dtake a look at Floria, where we spent a week last Thanksgiving and hasn’t had a mask mandate since last September and everybody knows all the retirees flock to. As of today, NY’s state wide cumulative death rate per 100,000 people is 59% higher than FL’s.
What puzzles me is why is California lower than Fl. and Texas.

I have no doubt many people have died and many more have gotten sick. What nobody knows is how many people have actually contracted the virus. That’s pretty damn important because it establishes the numerator and without it, all the math and science being done is based on assumptions of what the numerator is
True, my son has had no symptoms and was exposed to me, my daughter, and my brother in October (he lives with me) and to my wife who had it in December. He's never been tested so I don't know for sure but I can't imagine he's dodged the bullet after prolonged contact.
 

DubiousDan

TGT Addict
May 22, 2010
18,747
113
San Antonio
I don't know this news outlet, but if this story is true, it's a bit disturbing. Cuomo-level disturbing.
What that fails to point out is that vaccines take a few weeks to be effective and considering the incubation period the people who died had it when they were vaccinated. A fine example of yellow journalism and fear mongering.
 

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