Does that James Yeager guy irritate you too?
- Thread starter Moonpie
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breakingcontact
TGT Addict
GlockOwner
TGT Addict
Anyone have the link to the full video? I keep finding vids that are around 7 - 9 minutes
GlockOwner
TGT Addict
I've done a lot of PSD runs between Baghdad and the BIAP up and down Irish and it was a bad road to get stopped on - so let me show you things through a PSD contractor's eyes for a second:
The Edinburgh Risk team was in a small, lo-pro convoy (low-profile - masquerading as Iraqis) - but they had nowhere to go when they were prevented from moving forward by the presence of a US Army convoy ahead of them who were reportedly investigating a IED.
Being immobile, The E.R team was identified as being Westerners by a dicker somewhere and eventually came under direct machine-gunfire. The fact that most armchair commandos miss is that they had nowhere to go even if Yaeger hadn't screwed up.
If they'd gone forward to get out of the kill-zone they'd have been heading towards a US Army convoy and would have gotten shot to pieces - stay where they were, and they'd get slaughtered by the Iraqi insurgents' PKM. Pretty much the only options they had once the contact started were to take cover, pop lots of smoke and *perhaps* leg it.
That's the risk with lo-pro movements - if you get stopped, you're likely to get blown and then jumped. That's just how it works, so your Action-On drills (Actions on Contact, or IAD - Immediate Action Drills) had better be pretty frigging slick.
Yaeger's AAR after the Edinburgh Risk incident on Route Irish was the reason the PSD community detests him - because he blamed his dead team-mates. Not so much his actions during the contact, as many folks assume
The Edinburgh Risk team was in a small, lo-pro convoy (low-profile - masquerading as Iraqis) - but they had nowhere to go when they were prevented from moving forward by the presence of a US Army convoy ahead of them who were reportedly investigating a IED.
Being immobile, The E.R team was identified as being Westerners by a dicker somewhere and eventually came under direct machine-gunfire. The fact that most armchair commandos miss is that they had nowhere to go even if Yaeger hadn't screwed up.
If they'd gone forward to get out of the kill-zone they'd have been heading towards a US Army convoy and would have gotten shot to pieces - stay where they were, and they'd get slaughtered by the Iraqi insurgents' PKM. Pretty much the only options they had once the contact started were to take cover, pop lots of smoke and *perhaps* leg it.
That's the risk with lo-pro movements - if you get stopped, you're likely to get blown and then jumped. That's just how it works, so your Action-On drills (Actions on Contact, or IAD - Immediate Action Drills) had better be pretty frigging slick.
Yaeger's AAR after the Edinburgh Risk incident on Route Irish was the reason the PSD community detests him - because he blamed his dead team-mates. Not so much his actions during the contact, as many folks assume
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breakingcontact
TGT Addict
^Andys assessment reflects most of what ive read and watched on this.
Only one vehicle was armored i think, US Army was indeed down the road blocking it, they had no idea who was shooting at them or from where. Yeager did screw up with the manual trans car/brake issue. They may have been able to break contact "get off the X" but who knows if they moved their may have been another MG lane of fire or an IED. Everything i ever learned about convoy training was to get out of the kill zone though and he and his team didnt do that. Something about a machine gun in a white SUV in the video they mention but communication and situational awareness broke down quickly.
Andy mentioned Yeagers AAR, ive looked at the parts of that that are public too and parts or it dont sit well with people and i get that.
I dont hate the guy for his actions that day. I dont think he is a coward. I think he should have never went over there and the company that employed him and his team and got them into that position is more at fault than anyone.
Without Life there can be no Liberty.
Only one vehicle was armored i think, US Army was indeed down the road blocking it, they had no idea who was shooting at them or from where. Yeager did screw up with the manual trans car/brake issue. They may have been able to break contact "get off the X" but who knows if they moved their may have been another MG lane of fire or an IED. Everything i ever learned about convoy training was to get out of the kill zone though and he and his team didnt do that. Something about a machine gun in a white SUV in the video they mention but communication and situational awareness broke down quickly.
Andy mentioned Yeagers AAR, ive looked at the parts of that that are public too and parts or it dont sit well with people and i get that.
I dont hate the guy for his actions that day. I dont think he is a coward. I think he should have never went over there and the company that employed him and his team and got them into that position is more at fault than anyone.
Without Life there can be no Liberty.
breakingcontact
TGT Addict
Argh with the double post from Tapatalk!
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Do you all think the so called "coward" incident was dug up and publicized because he was already "irritating" people and they just wanted another reason to dislike him or dismiss him? I find it troubling how so many people in the gun community bailed on him with his "pack your bags" video and comments about "killing people." He seemed to be venting and saying what most of us were thinking, and I happen to agree with all his statements on 2nd amendment rights and firearms carry rights. He seems to be on the right side there. I also can't disagree with him on much on what he says regarding tactics and equipment. I see all that other stuff as just salesmanship, but sometimes he does effectively challenge you to evaluate your own beliefs about your equipment, training, tactics, lifestyles, etc. Even if you don't take a class from him, I think he still does bring some valuable information and furthers discussions just from his contrived videos. That's not a bad thing. With all that said, I think he is a good guy and he doesn't irritate me, although I agree with everything else Sig_Fiend has said about choosing a qualified instructor.
breakingcontact
TGT Addict
I agree you can learn from him.
He's either been through therapy or studies psychology as it applies to learning.
His "check the chamber for an empty chamber NOT brass" is a good example of that.
He's either been through therapy or studies psychology as it applies to learning.
His "check the chamber for an empty chamber NOT brass" is a good example of that.
Exactly. His routines are simple and work well, it would seem, in a training environment (at least). He develops a sort of persona that works well on the internet. It also creates annoying fanboys who take everything he says as gospel. Also a lot of hate. But this is more a symptom of our uncritical society. Where is the in-between. People should be able to weed through the bullshit.
Personally, I'm not going to watch his video. What happened is between him and his guys. There's a reason a lot of vets don't like talking about what they did or what happened to them out in the field. Anyone can criticize from the comfort of their living room.
I still don't have much respect for the guy, but I'm not out seeking blood.
I still don't have much respect for the guy, but I'm not out seeking blood.
breakingcontact
TGT Addict
I watched it to understand why people hated him so much for what happened over there. Certainly understand why some wouldnt want to watch it and agree everyone needs to respect the fact that we were not there on that road that day.
Thats my beef though. What the hell made him think he should go over there? Zero military experience. Small town cop. There is the possibility that the reality that the company put him into wasnt what he signed up for or trained for. Again we dont know the whole picture.
Before anyone says that should be expected...he wasnt military. He didnt sign a military contract.
Im surprised to see so many pix of Costa (forget his whole name) with Yeager.
Without Life there can be no Liberty.
I believe so.
When you see him run from the stalled vehicle in the video and head for the median, that's a perfectly reasonable action to take when your vehicle is taking fire. While they can be used as partial concealment (and some sections can be used as hard-cover), the fact is well-known in PSD-circles and elsewhere that vehicles *are* bullet-magnets; I don't see any cowardice in finding better cover.
What happened in the video isn't the actual issue at all.
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breakingcontact
TGT Addict
Bail out of a vehicle that is disabled or otherwise not moving? Of course!
Putting the E brake on while sitting there...questionable. Forgetting to take it off once the shooting begins...understandable but thats why it shouldnt have been on in the first place.
Better training and doctrine MIGHT have been able to prevent this but it might not as well. Even when you make what seems to be a good decision sometimes the result turns out bad.
Something we always had drilled into us in combat training (*never was down range) was to make a decision. You have to do something. Yeager made mistakes but he did take action.
My issue is he seems to have made a long series of mistakes in his life and hasnt learned to be humbled along the way.
Without Life there can be no Liberty.
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