If it has to do with COVID, it goes HERE!'

[easy rider]

Be careful getting the Flu shot this year if you are so inclined. My sister got one and ended up in the hospital for three days due to fluid on the lungs and around her heart. She was given an additional prescription of two weeks bed rest at home. She later enrolled in a TU study for Covid antibodies. After her first blood draw she showed both " natural " and "vaccine " anti bodies. Same with the second blood draw. She has never knowingly had the Covid vax nor has she ever shown any symptoms of having Covid. Wonder what was in that Flu shot?

That's exactly why I am now hesitant on getting any vaccine. How will I know I'm not getting something I didn't ask for? Don't ask me to trust. I already trusted the narrative of "15 days to slow the spread".

 

[kbaxter60]

Boom. (Resident medical experts: this is where you jump in to tell me that this is a bogus study and it was not peer reviewed):

New JAMA paper show Ivermectin blows the COVID vaccines out of the water

Whoops! How embarrassing! The CDC gave you bad advice. If you want to survive COVID, you should use the drug they said to avoid, and avoid the drug they said to use.

stevekirsch.substack.com

 

[Texas42]

Not once did I ever say I was smarter. I rather indicated the exact opposite and asked for verifiable data from the supposed experts. All I've seen is a bunch of "maybe" and "could" and "may" and "appears to." You mentioned seeing mostly unvaxxed people succumbing to illness, with your own two eyes. An observation. I'm offering the same, presenting observations of the data being posted by the experts, yet I'm still wrong? Show me how your observation trumps mine, don't just believe you're right and that I'm perhaps just being obstinate.

I still would like a solid understanding how the TOTAL mortality rate seems to have remained basically the same. If your observation fit the narrative, that it is mostly unvaxxed people dying, are you saying that the number of unvaxxed people dying has grown in exact proportion to the number of vaccinated that are surviving? Or is there some other explanation?

What are you looking at? I have no idea.

Everything can google shows vaccinated people dying at rates far below the unvaccinated. Are you talking about total death rates? Like looking for “excess deaths”?

 

[Brains]

What are you looking at? I have no idea.

Everything can google shows vaccinated people dying at rates far below the unvaccinated. Are you talking about total death rates? Like looking for “excess deaths”?

In post #848 in this thread, I grabbed both the cumulative confirmed cases and the cumulative death charts provided by John Hopkins. In that post I questioned why the slope remained the same, despite our efforts.

I attached it here again, this time dropping an approximation of a slow moving average line to hopefully clarify what it is I'm asking. As previously mentioned in the thread, there's been ebb and flow in the rate of deaths that coincide with each variant. That is not what I'm asking, you can see that represented. The problem is the SMA before vaccinations matches the SMA after vaccinations. There is no point at which the slope of the accumulative data says "here is the point our actions changed the outcome."

Vaccines were being rapidly distributed beginning of 2021, and the rapid increase of deaths from Delta began to taper. We perhaps thought we had it licked, only for the trend to again rise. Lots of new explanations, excuses, boosters, etc. but to my eyes the reality would have to be that the vaccine simply wasn't effective. Heck neither were the masks, shutdowns, quarantines, etc. Breaking up the data by region, areas that issued more strict mandates often fared worse. I'm not looking for a political reason, I'm looking for a scientific explanation. Perhaps dumbed down a bit, I'm not a medical researcher either. Really what I'm asking is 'What are we missing, and worse why would we choose not to explore it?'

 

[easy rider]

I'm of the opinion we'll never know the real truth. We're told to trust the science, yet throughout history, as the data changed so goes the science. It seems you can't get two different data collectors to come up with the same data. Why do I only see data of patients in hospitals with COVID, rather than from COVID? Did the economy tank because the workers died from COVID, or because they were incentivized to stay home? It makes no sense to claim corporation stores are essential to stay open, yet mom and pop stores that sells much the same must stay closed.

Remember when it was okay to buy food at Walmart, but if you cross the aisle to buy a rake in the garden section you're spreading COVID? Was that science? The lack of vitamin D has been shown to lead to sickness, but in the summer of 2020 we were told not to go outside, where most people get their vitamin D. Was that science?

There are many many decisions that didn't make sense if you think 'science', yet the people that were telling us to "trust the science" were the ones making those decisions.

 

[Axxe55]

I'm of the opinion we'll never know the real truth. We're told to trust the science, yet throughout history, as the data changed so goes the science. It seems you can't get two different data collectors to come up with the same data. Why do I only see data of patients in hospitals with COVID, rather than from COVID? Did the economy tank because the workers died from COVID, or because they were incentivized to stay home? It makes no sense to claim corporation stores are essential to stay open, yet mom and pop stores that sells much the same must stay closed.

Remember when it was okay to buy food at Walmart, but if you cross the aisle to buy a rake in the garden section you're spreading COVID? Was that science? The lack of vitamin D has been shown to lead to sickness, but in the summer of 2020 we were told not to go outside, where most people get their vitamin D. Was that science?

There are many many decisions that didn't make sense if you think 'science', yet the people that were telling us to "trust the science" were the ones making those decisions.

And how many lies have we been told about getting the vaccine?

Why were so many politicians pushing for Americans to get vaccinated?

And why was there so much push for vaccinating children? A group that had the least chance of being infected or complications?

Why were so many deaths that clearly were not Covid related, listed as being from Covid?

 

[easy rider]

And how many lies have we been told about getting the vaccine?

Why were so many politicians pushing for Americans to get vaccinated?

And why was there so much push for vaccinating children? A group that had the least chance of being infected or complications?

Why were so many deaths that clearly were not Covid related, listed as being from Covid?

I'm sure Fauci will tell you "science".

 

[Texas42]

In post #848 in this thread, I grabbed both the cumulative confirmed cases and the cumulative death charts provided by John Hopkins. In that post I questioned why the slope remained the same, despite our efforts.

I attached it here again, this time dropping an approximation of a slow moving average line to hopefully clarify what it is I'm asking. As previously mentioned in the thread, there's been ebb and flow in the rate of deaths that coincide with each variant. That is not what I'm asking, you can see that represented. The problem is the SMA before vaccinations matches the SMA after vaccinations. There is no point at which the slope of the accumulative data says "here is the point our actions changed the outcome."

Vaccines were being rapidly distributed beginning of 2021, and the rapid increase of deaths from Delta began to taper. We perhaps thought we had it licked, only for the trend to again rise. Lots of new explanations, excuses, boosters, etc. but to my eyes the reality would have to be that the vaccine simply wasn't effective. Heck neither were the masks, shutdowns, quarantines, etc. Breaking up the data by region, areas that issued more strict mandates often fared worse. I'm not looking for a political reason, I'm looking for a scientific explanation. Perhaps dumbed down a bit, I'm not a medical researcher either. Really what I'm asking is 'What are we missing, and worse why would we choose not to explore it?'


View attachment 305554

To find the efficacy of the vaccine, you should compare the populations who have had the vaccine and those that haven’t.

That the number of deaths goes up on kinda straightish line doesn’t mean anything, at least not related to vaccine efficacy. If you did the same thing to influenza over years prior to 2019, you would probably get a similar graph. Again, the flu shot has good efficacy (not perfect, a good reduction in hospitalization and death). I did try and find it, but can’t find it that spans several years.

You would be right If we had a steady number of infections, but we didn’t. We had multiple surges, the most recent with more infections and a higher hospitalization peak, but a lower peak death rate.

 

[BBL]

To find the efficacy of the vaccine, you should compare the populations who have had the vaccine and those that haven’t.

Right. Comparing the millions of unvaccinated deaths with the millions killed by the vaccines would be pertinent.
However, we don't hear the CDC talking about that. And never will. Plus FakeBook and other media remove any mention of vaccine deaths. Dissent is verboten.

 

[Brains]

To find the efficacy of the vaccine, you should compare the populations who have had the vaccine and those that haven’t.

That the number of deaths goes up on kinda straightish line doesn’t mean anything, at least not related to vaccine efficacy. If you did the same thing to influenza over years prior to 2019, you would probably get a similar graph. Again, the flu shot has good efficacy (not perfect, a good reduction in hospitalization and death). I did try and find it, but can’t find it that spans several years.

You would be right If we had a steady number of infections, but we didn’t. We had multiple surges, the most recent with more infections and a higher hospitalization peak, but a lower peak death rate.

We have the data on vaccinated vs non, don't we? I mean we must, that was the big message of all 2021. "Most hospitalizations and deaths are unvaccinated..." Seems like if there was something that could be validated, verified, and influential it would be just that. But unless I completely missed it, we got colloquialisms and unverified observations instead.

So if the total number of people dying is roughly the same, would it be safe to say that one of these is true?
1. People were dying at a rate consistent at natural rates, with covid not a significant contributing factor
2. That vaccines are ineffective in preventing death, but perhaps still effective in preventing or reducing the severity of illness
3. The data is simply not valid
4. Something else?

The last point about the number of surges is what really makes this not add up for me. The John Hopkins charts do show a surge with Omicron, but the rate of death didn't change with it. All the reports came out to say the vax wasn't nearly as effective against this variant. Then hospitals began saying they saw more patients, but symptoms were mild, non life threatening regardless of whether they had been vaccinated. The charts showed a shallower surge with Delta, but again the cumulative death rate remained close to that same rate. That is my sticking point that I can't wrap my head around. Maybe it's right there and I just can't grasp it, but my logical brain knows if you introduce a new input vector, you'll alter the output vector. And a "98 percent effective" vector applied to two thirds of your dataset is a pretty big input.

One other thing that I'm sure is out there and would be interesting to see would be a cumulative rate of death over multiple years prior to covid, up through today.

 

[Axxe55]

What are you looking at? I have no idea.

Everything can google shows vaccinated people dying at rates far below the unvaccinated. Are you talking about total death rates? Like looking for “excess deaths”?

How about some straight up simple answers to some simple questions to you.

Does the vaccine work? Will it prevent getting Covid? Will it keep someone from transmitting Covid? Will it cure a person with Covid?

And as a supposed doctor, do you recommend people getting vaccinated? And under what conditions do you recommend vaccinations?

 

[oldag]

How about some straight up simple answers to some simple questions to you.

Does the vaccine work? Will it prevent getting Covid? Will it keep someone from transmitting Covid? Will it cure a person with Covid?

And as a supposed doctor, do you recommend people getting vaccinated? And under what conditions do you recommend vaccinations?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

But you knew the answers already.

 

[Texas42]

How about some straight up simple answers to some simple questions to you.

Does the vaccine work? Will it prevent getting Covid? Will it keep someone from transmitting Covid? Will it cure a person with Covid?

And as a supposed doctor, do you recommend people getting vaccinated? And under what conditions do you recommend vaccinations?

It will reduce their risk of hospitalization and death. That sounds like it works to me.

I recommend basically all adults get it. That might change pending what happens after this wave, but we will see.

 

[Axxe55]

It will reduce their risk of hospitalization and death. That sounds like it works to me.

I recommend basically all adults get it. That might change pending what happens after this wave, but we will see.

How do you explain and justify the health risks and deaths from healthy people after getting the vaccine?

And please be careful with your answers. I have already been confirmed to have had Covid twice by my doctor and never have or will get the vaccine. As a matter of fact, my doctor was very much opposed to people getting the vaccine, and recommended to me not to get it.

 

[Texas42]

We have the data on vaccinated vs non, don't we? I mean we must, that was the big message of all 2021. "Most hospitalizations and deaths are unvaccinated..." Seems like if there was something that could be validated, verified, and influential it would be just that. But unless I completely missed it, we got colloquialisms and unverified observations instead.

So if the total number of people dying is roughly the same, would it be safe to say that one of these is true?
1. People were dying at a rate consistent at natural rates, with covid not a significant contributing factor
2. That vaccines are ineffective in preventing death, but perhaps still effective in preventing or reducing the severity of illness
3. The data is simply not valid
4. Something else?

The last point about the number of surges is what really makes this not add up for me. The John Hopkins charts do show a surge with Omicron, but the rate of death didn't change with it. All the reports came out to say the vax wasn't nearly as effective against this variant. Then hospitals began saying they saw more patients, but symptoms were mild, non life threatening regardless of whether they had been vaccinated. The charts showed a shallower surge with Delta, but again the cumulative death rate remained close to that same rate. That is my sticking point that I can't wrap my head around. Maybe it's right there and I just can't grasp it, but my logical brain knows if you introduce a new input vector, you'll alter the output vector. And a "98 percent effective" vector applied to two thirds of your dataset is a pretty big input.

One other thing that I'm sure is out there and would be interesting to see would be a cumulative rate of death over multiple years prior to covid, up through today.

The mRNA vaccines were 95% effective in reducing symptomatic illness in the initial studies. Two things changed. Immunity wanes with time and the disease changed (new variants). The vaccines are still really good. Like still 80-95% effective with booster In reducing hospitalizations. The reduction in symptomatic disease is less.

Effectiveness of a Third Dose of mRNA Vaccines ...

This report describes COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness time frames among people who received their first and second doses of the vaccine series, and effectiveness of third vaccine doses during both Delta- and Omicron-predominant periods.

www.cdc.gov

The data is there. . . . You know if you look for it.

 

[Axxe55]

Hmmm...what about natural immunity?

I'll bet that the good doctors don't want to discuss that! Might compromise their ability to push for more people getting vaccinated!

 

[avvidclif]

I have mixed emotions. I got the vaccine, Jan/Feb 2021. March I went on Oxygen 24/7. I don't know if the vaccine kept me alive or not but it sure put a crimp in my lifestyle. Dragging around an O2 bottle is not much fun. Oh, June 2021 they said if you have COPD/Emphysema don't take the vaccine. Grrrrrr

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Moderna expects at least $19 billion in Covid vaccine sales in 2022, reports big fourth-quarter earnings beat

 

[pronstar]

View attachment 305595
The mRNA vaccines were 95% effective in reducing symptomatic illness in the initial studies. Two things changed. Immunity wanes with time and the disease changed (new variants). The vaccines are still really good. Like still 80-95% effective with booster In reducing hospitalizations. The reduction in symptomatic disease is less.

Effectiveness of a Third Dose of mRNA Vaccines ...

This report describes COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness time frames among people who received their first and second doses of the vaccine series, and effectiveness of third vaccine doses during both Delta- and Omicron-predominant periods.

www.cdc.gov

The data is there. . . . You know if you look for it.

Same data set they’ve admitted to withholding data from?

CDC withholding COVID data over fears of misinterpretation

The CDC has admitted it is withholding large portions of COVID-19 data from the public because it fears the information could be misinterpreted.

nypost.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[HKSig]

Hmmm...what about natural immunity?

Don't forget the study someone posted (yesterday, I think) about Ivermectin; 3x or 4x as effective as vaccines.