"Entry level" What does that mean?

[Waterguy]

I have been a little confused on the term.
Reading through some of the forums on buying a new gun, the term is gets used on more than one occasion.

I will use some of the post in the 1911 thread as an example.
Some say the cheaper ones are an entry type pistol, but I have seen $1000 pistol referred to as entry level.

So I guess the question is, what is common ground when referring to a "entry level" firearm?

 

[wakal]

It means, as many things do, exactly what it seems to mean. No more, no less.

I usually see "entry level" as a "firearm to start with" as in "everyone has to start somewhere."

When compared to a 2011 STI, any lesser 1911 (Wilson, Colt, Springfield, Kimber, Para Ordnance) is "entry level."

When compared to a Kimber, a Rock Island is "entry level."

When compared to a rock, a Glock is "entry level" (oh, I kid, I kid )



Alex

 

[jtriron]

When compared to a 2011 STI, any lesser 1911 (Wilson, Colt, Springfield, Kimber, Para Ordnance) is "entry level."


You sir, are correct on the above statement.

 

[Mikewood]

An entry level 1911 would indicate its moderatly priced and moderatly accurate with a less than "target" trigger. It needs no special "loving care" or cleaning. It's also loose enough you don't have to fight to put it back together. You won't shoot 2" groups at 50 yards and the trigger might be a bit heavy and have a bit of creep. That's ok. You can have it tuned to be a $1500 race gun when you want to. The only real factOr you can't fit is slide to frame fit. So if it feels loose and not "sliding like glass" there is not much you can do but replace the slide. A good gunsmith can make a $600 1911 shoot as well as a $1500 for less or equal to the higher price.

 

[Stumpy]

Entry level: Rock Island
Not entry level: Les Baer

 

[coachrick]

For a lot of people, 'entry level' means less expensive, easier to find, and not-as-cool as their last purchase!

 

[40Arpent]

Unless specific to a certain platform, like the 1911 as used in your example, I tend to think of "entry level" firearms as being what's best suited for a beginner shooter. An example would be recommending a double action revolver over, say, a 1911.

 

[macshooter]

Basic functional example of a particular type of gun. Mass produced, lower priced. No custom fitting/work. A Springfield GI 1911 is a good example of an entry level gun. Solid reliable, but no frills. If you really like the platform, then you can pony up a couple grand for a really nice example or custom gun later if that's what you want.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Entry level(po blk childs verson) a gun to learn on! I own 3 rocks.
My first was a rock gi, 389.00 otd it rattles like a baby is shaking it.
It has a idiot scratch (that i put on it) it is my first love!!!
I learned to take down put back together, it is showing tru wear!
Besides getting sick when i put the scratch on it, it is a entry level 1911.
Inexpensive, parts easy to find. And iffin you have to take it to a smith
Fairly cheap to fix. Also you are able to coustomize to your liking with out
Breaking the bank(most important)also it what it means
If it gets scuffed up no harm no foul!!!

 

[Davetex]

Entry level(po blk childs verson) a gun to learn on! I own 3 rocks.
My first was a rock gi, 389.00 otd it rattles like a baby is shaking it.
It has a idiot scratch (that i put on it) it is my first love!!!
I learned to take down put back together, it is showing tru wear!
Besides getting sick when i put the scratch on it, it is a entry level 1911.
Inexpensive, parts easy to find. And iffin you have to take it to a smith
Fairly cheap to fix. Also you are able to coustomize to your liking with out
Breaking the bank(most important)also it what it means
If it gets scuffed up no harm no foul!!!

Yep, that's a true story.

Entry level is the opposite of a safe queen.

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Yep heck yeah i want a brown a Lb a wilson combat, but cant afford one
But if i do it will be treated just like a entry level.
Unless you are rich, they are tools. If i spend that kind of
Money im gonna run em hot and run em long.
But back to the point, if you have to use it, it dont hurt as bad
To give it up to john law

 

[shortround]

"Entry-Level" is strictly a marketing ploy.

They want you to buy the gun thinking that you are getting a good value for a stripped version of their higher-end guns.

Sorta like buying a Ford Pinto instead of the Mustang.

You get what you pay for.

 

[shooterfpga]

Yep heck yeah i want a brown a Lb a wilson combat, but cant afford one
But if i do it will be treated just like a entry level.
Unless you are rich, they are tools. If i spend that kind of
Money im gonna run em hot and run em long.
But back to the point, if you have to use it, it dont hurt as bad
To give it up to john law

yup. i like to use mine, not stare at em through a pressurized case and handle it with white gloves.

 

[M. Sage]

Strange, I was just thinking about this over the past few days... Did you find a door into my head or something?

"Entry-Level" is strictly a marketing ploy.

They want you to buy the gun thinking that you are getting a good value for a stripped version of their higher-end guns.

Sorta like buying a Ford Pinto instead of the Mustang.

You get what you pay for.

That's pretty much how I see it. The big difference is that there's merit to the entry level idea with a car, since they wear out and depreciate pretty quickly. When you pull the trigger on a gun that's a century old (give or take - the receiver on one of my Mosins was made in 1909), you start to realize that the same doesn't hold true for them. At least with a car, about the time you've worn it out, you should (in theory) have moved up in the world, with different needs (like a family), so go for a higher-quality car.

That was exactly the idea behind FoMoCo's tiered marketing strategy with Ford/Linoln/Mercury.

But since even an "entry level" gun should be able to outlive you, especially a handgun, what's the point? Balance your budget with your application and buy what's right the first time.

 

[shortround]

It is not at all about an "entry gun" outliving you.

It is all about sales. They get you on the hook, buy it, then if you don't like it, what do you do with it?

Most folks don't throw a crappy gun in the trash or recycle bin.

"Entry-Level" guns are a curious genre.

Owners either like them or hate them.

Those who hate them will try to sell them or trade them, or as a last resort give them away.

Since guns, unlike vehicles, are true "durable" goods, they stay in the marketplace one way or other for a much longer time than an automobile.

 

[Waterguy]

Well this turned out to be more information than I thought.
I was kinda leaning toward the (you get what you pay for) line of thinking.
I have a much better line on the term now.
Thank yall.

 

[RetArmySgt]

The only thing i dont like about the "you get what you pay for" line is i have bought and/or owned several "cheap" guns that have ran better than other more expensive and "high-end" guns.

 

[Waterguy]

Yea, you are right, that does not fit as an all around term. I have some cheaper ones that are better than some
of the same at a higher price.
I think a good way to put it is, If you like it and it fits your needs or wants buy it.
If its your first one, its your (Entry Level) item.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I think the real difference in people's definition of "entry level" is in their experience, understanding, and determination of what is realistic. IMO, people do not pay enough attention to detail in examining a gun, diagnosing malfunctions, understanding the "why" behind it functioning the way it does or even how. Simply put, they don't know what they don't know. It's hard to explain this to someone that doesn't know.

My definition of entry level is something with no frills, but that is durable and reliable. My definition of durable and reliable is a gun that can function for a minimum of 1,000rds with ZERO malfunctions, and preferably at least 100-200rds of duty ammo if not more (gets expensive, I know). This is a significant enough operation interval to show just about any issue in poor fitment, poor component quality, etc. There are ways to potentially identify problem guns early on before wasting ammo. Look at 1911's for example. There is a very simple drill from 10-8 Performance called The Extractor Test. It's a whopping 16rds. Heck, make that the first 16rds you fire out of the box with a new 1911 and potentially save yourself a lot of trouble. There are some guns from manufacturers of poor reputation that will pass the 1,000rd test (just about everyone builds a good gun occasionally, even if by accident), and I've seen individual guns from very reputable manufacturers that wouldn't make it 50rds. As the saying goes, trust but verify. I know many people whose definition is more like 1 or 2 boxes of ammo, if that. That is not sufficient IMO. Improved ergonomics, extra features, performance advantages are usually all things that cost more money, but as long as it's durable and reliable, it should still get the job done.

You do absolutely get what you pay for IMO, the difference is you just don't have to pay a lot. Being a smart consumer, if you search around a bit, it's not hard to find used guns from reputable manufacturers for cheap prices that will likely be more reliable than some of the lower end new guns out there. IMO, entry level in price is around $300-400. In that price range, you can find used Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, S&W's, Springfields, and a few others that will likely work just fine, and worst case need $20 in new springs to be back in good shape. Why buy a new gun for $300 from a manufacturer with a rampant history of building poor quality guns, when you could buy a used Glock, used S&W 3rd gen semi, or some other good quality gun that may only need a little inexpensive maintenance? I've seen enough failures with Kel-Tecs, Taurus', Rossi, Charter Arms, and other similar manufacturers that it's a no-brainer IMO.

 

[M. Sage]

It is not at all about an "entry gun" outliving you.

It is all about sales. They get you on the hook, buy it, then if you don't like it, what do you do with it?

Most folks don't throw a crappy gun in the trash or recycle bin.

"Entry-Level" guns are a curious genre.

Owners either like them or hate them.

Those who hate them will try to sell them or trade them, or as a last resort give them away.

Since guns, unlike vehicles, are true "durable" goods, they stay in the marketplace one way or other for a much longer time than an automobile.

That's what I was trying to get at. As the saying goes; buy right, buy once. As a general rule, I try to buy used guns because most of the depreciation that does happen is when you pull the trigger for the first time. Let someone else take that hit; other than my "collectibles" (which aren't anything all that special), I expect to use my guns as tools. If I drop my Sig on the pavement someday, I'll probably cringe a little inside, but mostly at the mental image of it knocking a sight out of alignment. Either that, or the chips it just took out of the cement, LOL.