Family kicked out of home, arrested so police can use it for stake-out?

[Texan2]

When a police car if directly behind you with lights flashing, what "markings" can you see?

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[London]

If you suspect you are being pulled over by a fake cop, either call the real police for verification or drive to a police station.

 

[benenglish]

When a police car if directly behind you with lights flashing, what "markings" can you see?

None, so I pulled over.

When he stopped, though, he parked behind me at an angle. I could see the side of the bike, albeit at a severe angle and in my rearview mirror. The bike was solid black. If there were any markings on the hard saddlebags or on the tank, they were invisible to me. I confirmed all this as he went around me after the stop; there was nothing readable on the side of the bike.

None of this is absolute. I could have missed markings. I've seen patrol units marked in reflective white/silver on a white background and those markings are almost impossible to see in the daylight. Perhaps there's something similar for black bikes. I dunno.

All I know is everything about the stop rang my alarm bells, big time.

 

[Texan2]

If you suspect you are being pulled over by a fake cop, either call the real police for verification or drive to a police station.

This or just go to a well lit public place. WM, HEB, Academy. Whatever is close. The liklihood of getting stopped by a fake cop is somewhere near the liklihood of getting struck by lightning.

 

[benenglish]

If you suspect you are being pulled over by a fake cop, either call the real police for verification or drive to a police station.

Since that incident, I've given this a lot of thought. Your advice is easier said than done.

The maybe-cop who stopped me was in a rage at initial contact. I didn't know that until I was stopped, car off, window down, and he was yelling at me from 2 feet away. I feel fairly sure that if I had said "Hold on a minute. I'm going to call 911 to make sure you're a real cop. You just cool your heels for 5 minutes while they work their way through 10 levels of bureaucracy to get to someone who can confirm you are who you say you are." the outcome, for me, would have been...shall we say...sub-optimal.

OTOH, continuing to drive was not an option. I didn't know something was amiss until it was way too late for that. I would continue to drive if someone was trying to pull me over with, say, nothing but green flashing lights. In Texas, afaik, that wouldn't be an official vehicle. I might also continue to drive if I saw someone slap a magnetic cherry on the roof and try to pull me over. So the standard advice to "Drive to a well-lit location, preferably a police station" isn't, imo, as useful as it initially seems.

 

[Texan2]

I guess you can come up with excuses why something wont work. It is the advice given by many departments and seems to work pretty well. We don't live in a perfect world. Not always gonna have a perfect answer that everyone is happy with. Indicating you are not fleeing, usually by activating your emergency flashers and contiuing at a slower speed to a well populated area seems very reasonable and is usually very well accepted by LE agencies.

 

[benenglish]

The liklihood of getting stopped by a fake cop is somewhere near the liklihood of getting struck by lightning.

So, ~264,000 times a year? I think that estimate is a little high.

See the last paragraph in the body of this study, on page 13, immediately preceding the acknowledgements section: http://www.vaisala.com/Vaisala Docu..._rates_of_lightning_fatalities_by_country.pdf

 

[benenglish]

...activating your emergency flashers and contiuing at a slower speed...

Seems like good advice. I hope I never have to use it.

 

[Texan2]

you are correct! you are much more likely to get struck by lightning. media sensationalism makes this an issue when it usually isn't.

 

[M. Sage]

I guess you can come up with excuses why something wont work. It is the advice given by many departments and seems to work pretty well. We don't live in a perfect world. Not always gonna have a perfect answer that everyone is happy with. Indicating you are not fleeing, usually by activating your emergency flashers and contiuing at a slower speed to a well populated area seems very reasonable and is usually very well accepted by LE agencies.

It just doesn't apply to every situation. I was pulled over years ago by a raged-out SFPD motor cop who probably would have given me a hickory shampoo if I'd tried that, considering the first sentence he said to me was very profanity laced.

My crime? Driving a car that was smoking. :/

Some just go over the top. Fun fact: I know that SFPD keeps a rehab clinic on retainer for the use of their officers. That department has serious problems...

 

[benenglish]

media sensationalism makes this an issue when it usually isn't.

I agree completely...which brings us back to the OP and to the hypothetical posed by GlockOwner.

Well, not us, exactly; more correctly, y'all. I'm going to bow out before I offend anyone, something that would probably happen if I post 2 or 3 more times. Thanks for the civil discussion.

 

[Dust]

1. Haven't seen any overzealous cops hurt a dog recently.

Hawthorne, Ca Police Kill Dog(1) - YouTube

 

[Texan2]

Hawthorne, Ca Police Kill Dog(1) - YouTube

Already a thread on that. I was speaking about an overzealous cop who hurt a dog. That video shows a cop justifiably shooting a dog and his douche bag owner getting arrested. Got anything else?

 

[AcidFlashGordon]

To bring this back on topic, I wish I had had as much time to think up a response as those folks in the house in Nevada but even if I had had more time, I don't think there was any good way to handle the situation. I think the same can be said for the folks in Nevada.

Which is why the family has filed the lawsuit. This is very questionable behavior (for any PD except Henderson, actually) and the city of Henderson has had some other problems, including their PD trying to hassle people open carrying by saying that it was not legal in Henderson (wrong...it's legal in this state). They joined North Las Vegas and Boulder City in that stupidity and a few lawsuits lost finally brought them back to reality. MLVPD as a whole isn't all that bad. As others have said, it's unfortunate that a few bad cops make the entire department look bad. My own experiences with Metro have been with courteous officers, including while open carrying in a McDonald's and chatting with a Metro motorcycle officer as to the pros and cons of my carry weapon (SIG Sauer) and his (Glock).

 

[ROGER4314]

That makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Not going to post any threats or arguments. Simply put, my life would end right then & there.

Flash

 

[TheDan]

Hypothetical here: Say it was only two cops, and they were both stomping all over the constitution like that. Would the homeowner have been within his rights to open fire on the two cops once they busted down the door like that?

If no warrant and no exigency, then it's just another home invasion. Homeowner would be in the right to defend himself. Dead, but in the right...

 

[Kennydale]

This is not a COP having a bad day. This is a WHOLE DEPTs gone rogue. It's time Sheriff's, Chief's, Governors, Mayors & DA's took ownership of these actions. If someone would lead with integrity and authority, and took responsibility, many of these issues would clear up. If the rank & file COP knew he might be going to jail if he invaded someone's home without cause they, would STOP doing this....... They are told they must get results at any cost, and WE LET THEM. LEOS ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW !

 

[Texan2]

This is not a COP having a bad day. This is a WHOLE DEPTs gone rogue. It's time Sheriff's, Chief's, Governors, Mayors & DA's took ownership of these actions. If someone would lead with integrity and authority, and took responsibility, many of these issues would clear up. If the rank & file COP knew he might be going to jail if he invaded someone's home without cause they, would STOP doing this....... They are told they must get results at any cost, and WE LET THEM. LEOS ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW !

I am glad you got to examine all the facts in this case and not just read a plaintiff's lawsuit..... Oh wait.