First ‘Smart’ Pistol Hits Shelves in California

[benenglish]

Of course this is only the first step. Next, police will be able to disable weapons. Bad idea.

Anything that requires rfid proximity can be jammed already. Anyone can jam this pistol right now. Also, rfid signals can be spoofed, allowing non-authorized users to fire this pistol. Damn stupid idea, all the way 'round.

 

[Acera]

Folks out here are on a campaign to boycott Oak Tree Gun Club for the owners stupidity. LOTS of unhappy shooters over the owner support this shit.

I understand that the pressure worked and they are now not going to sell the gun. I tried to call them to confirm, but no one is answering the phones (661-259-7441). Their voice mail box is full also. Reading some of the posts on Calguns and their facebook page, these folks took a dump where they eat and are getting punished for being d-bags with this.

 

[grumper]

I see a grand money making opportunity here.

Imagine Hogue-like rubber wraparound grips that you can embed that stupid watch into.

Or a rail mounted watch holder.

Or a special extension cord you can plug into that retarded pistol to make sure it always has power to authenticate the user.

Pick up all 3 for the special discounted Californian price of just $9,000!!! Call now! Operators are standing by!!!

Order now and receive a FREE ginsu knife set. But wait, there's more! You will also get a free pendant set with a brilliant Silicon Dioxide gemstone!

 

[Jakashh]

I think new jersey passed a law stating that when the first smart gun gets sold anywhere in the states, all guns sold in new jersey have to be smart guns. Sucks for them.

 

[Acera]

I think new jersey passed a law stating that when the first smart gun gets sold anywhere in the states, all guns sold in new jersey have to be smart guns. Sucks for them.

Yup, you are correct. Bet the NJ gun forums are active with this

NJ's 2002 smart-gun law could take effect soon, limit supply - NorthJersey.com

 

[grumper]

Yup, you are correct. Bet the NJ gun forums are active with this

NJ's 2002 smart-gun law could take effect soon, limit supply - NorthJersey.com

New Jersey edition watch wraparound grips and rail mounted time piece are patent pending. Back off

 

[Dredens]

Yup, you are correct. Bet the NJ gun forums are active with this

NJ's 2002 smart-gun law could take effect soon, limit supply - NorthJersey.com

Lol this law probably won't work for crap just like the registration in Connecticut.

 

[Southpaw]

Yup, you are correct. Bet the NJ gun forums are active with this

NJ's 2002 smart-gun law could take effect soon, limit supply - NorthJersey.com

Quote from this article below... Boy O boy, are some people completely disconnected from reality or what???

After that, it’s probably just a matter of time before the technology becomes standard, said Stephen Teret, a professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and the founding director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.
“Who is going to want to buy an old stupid gun rather than a smart gun?” Teret, who has been working on the issue for 30 years, said. “I am very optimistic about this.”

 

[Acera]

Lol this law probably won't work for crap just like the registration in Connecticut.

Explain that part to me. How do you make that assumption???


The law deals with dealers, and what they sell. I think they can and will control what is sold. Way too easy to catch a dealer is not following the law. Not worth it to the legitimate dealers to risk penalties.

 

[PhulesAu]

Bankruptcy is not a viable business plan?

Only if you're into solar power.

 

[Dredens]

Explain that part to me. How do you make that assumption???


The law deals with dealers, and what they sell. I think they can and will control what is sold. Way too easy to catch a dealer is not following the law. Not worth it to the legitimate dealers to risk penalties.

Well, how are they really gonna enforce it between private, personal sales of "non-smart" firearms?

 

[Acera]

Well, how are they really gonna enforce it between private, personal sales of "non-smart" firearms?

The law says nothing about that. Not in it's scope.

As I posted before, the law only applies to dealers.

 

[Dredens]

Right, so in the end if people just take to personal selling, there's a way around it.

 

[Acera]

Right, so in the end if people just take to personal selling, there's a way around it.

Unless you want a new gun. Prices for used guns will skyrocket after that. Fortunately for us, the price of used guns is kept in check by what you can go buy off the shelf.

As new folks want to get guns for sport and personal defense in NJ, they will soon be faced with a dilemma not encountered by the rest of us. The current supply will dry up.

But hey, it's New Jersey, they are fucked in so many other gun ways this only seems appropriate for those folks.

Also remember that their governor (not the same one who signed that pos legislation) is the presumptive GOP nominee. Lets see if that RINO does anything to abolish it now.

 

[London]

Why do I have a feeling this gun was subsidized by the govt?

 

[Dredens]

Why do I have a feeling this gun was subsidized by the govt?

Wouldn't even surprise me one bit.

 

[kotetu]

Would be funny as hell to see the pro-gun guys in California put forth legislation requiring all LEO to carry these

Then sit back and wait for them to create a shit storm about them being unsafe, dangerous, un-tested, etc.......................

We most certainly don't want the state to provide the demand that brings about the survival of this product.

Just sayin...

 

[benenglish]

I think new jersey passed a law stating that when the first smart gun gets sold anywhere in the states, all guns sold in new jersey have to be smart guns.

Yup, you are correct. Bet the NJ gun forums are active with this

They're not as active as I thought. I've spent some time this morning reading NJ gun forums and found some mighty dejected folks. I'm not talking just on this issue but in general. They have to work their way through a whole bunch of amazingly stupid crap to do things we take for granted, like figure out if the thing they're screwing on the end of their barrel is a break (OK) or a flash hider (go directly to jail).

That's a beaten-down-sounding bunch of gun owners over there.

Anyway, I'm not sure that this pistol meets the definition set forth in the NJ law since it's not a pistol, it's a pistol/watch combination. The text is here: P.L.2002, c.130 (S573 2R SCS)

(Somebody ought to tell this guy - Weinberg writes the AG to activate the smart gun law - Current Gun Law Discussion - New Jersey Gun Forums )

The definition of a "personalized handgun" is:

"Personalized handgun" means a handgun which incorporates within its design, and as part of its original manufacture, technology which automatically limits its operational use and which cannot be readily deactivated, so that it may only be fired by an authorized or recognized user. The technology limiting the handgun's operational use may include, but not be limited to: radio frequency tagging, touch memory, remote control, fingerprint, magnetic encoding and other automatic user identification systems utilizing biometric, mechanical or electronic systems. No make or model of a handgun shall be deemed to be a "personalized handgun" unless the Attorney General has determined, through testing or other reasonable means, that the handgun meets any reliability standards that the manufacturer may require for its commercially available handguns that are not personalized or, if the manufacturer has no such reliability standards, the handgun meets the reliability standards generally used in the industry for commercially available handguns.

After reading that, I feel much better for our NJ brethren. This new handgun does not meet the NJ definition of "personalized handgun" and should not trigger the law.

Why? Let me count the ways -

The law requires

a handgun which incorporates within its design...technology...

This handgun does not incorporate the technology within its design. It incorporates the technology within the design of both the handgun and the watch, a combination not covered by simply "handgun". "A handgun and a watch" is NOT the same as "a handgun".

The law requires

...technology which ... cannot be readily deactivated...

This handgun does not meet that standard. Any RFID device can be remotely jammed, easily.

The law requires

a handgun ... that... may only be fired by an authorized ... user.

This handgun does not meet that standard. There's nothing about the presence of the rfid watch that means the user is actually authorized. If you steal the watch and gun combo, you can use it; however, you're definitely not an authorized user.

The law requires

a handgun ... that ... may only be fired by a... recognized user.

This handgun will not be called upon to meet this standard because there is no definition in the law for "recognized user". It seems clear from the context that the intent is for the handgun to recognize the legal owner. This handgun does not do that. It only recognizes the watch. A tortured definition of "recognized" could be employed to allow the coding inside the firearm to determine the standard of recognition but since that standard, by design, cannot be limited to any particular person, it clearly does not fulfill the intent of the law. Absent a clear definition of "recognized user", the entire concept of "personalized handgun" under NJ law simply collapses.

The law requires that personalized handguns meet mechanical reliability standards vetted by the AG. To wit:

No make or model of a handgun shall be deemed to be a "personalized handgun" unless the Attorney General has determined through testing or other reasonable means...

This simple-sounding requirement opens an avenue to block enforcement forever. If what is and isn't legal is determined by an AG determination about (see below) mechanical reliability, then the process of AG testing is subject to challenge. Absent testing, the complete lack of definition of "reasonable means" opens yet another avenue for legal action to challenge enforcement. An active community of shooters who take the state to court could use this partial sentence to tie the matter up for years.

The law requires that

No make or model of a handgun shall be deemed to be a "personalized handgun" unless the ... handgun meets any reliability standards that the manufacturer may require for its commercially available handguns that are not personalized ...

That standard is meaningless. It gives the manufacturer control over the legality of their product. They need simply lie and say "Yeah, it meets our standards. Sure." On the basis that no manufacturer should be given the authority to determine if their own product is legal in the state, I'm surprised this language made it into the statute. Even anti-gun legislators should be offended by the notion that their laws can be changed simply by what a manufacturer writes in their marketing materials. A successful court challenge to the triggering of this law via any personalized handgun approved via this avenue is highly likely to succeed. The wording is simply ridiculous.

The law requires

No make or model of a handgun shall be deemed to be a "personalized handgun" unless ... the handgun meets the reliability standards generally used in the industry for commercially available handguns.

This handgun does not meet that standard because current commercially available handguns do not require you to carry another device with you to make them work; they do not fail to work in the absence of that separate device. Thus, this new firearm does not rise to the level of reliability required by this wording. Therefore, it does not trigger the law to come into effect.

From a more practical approach, in another section the law requires that personalized handguns must be available at retail before the law goes into effect. Specifically,

personalized handguns shall be deemed to be available for retail sales purposes if at least one manufacturer has delivered at least one production model of a personalized handgun to a registered or licensed wholesale or retail dealer in New Jersey or any other state.

What dealer would attempt to screw over every other dealer in the state? What dealer would so completely alienate every current and potential handgun owner in the state? What dealer in another state would be so oblivious to their actions that they'd be willing to terribly (perhaps mortally) damage all the dealers in NJ?

The first dealer to accept delivery of a pistol that triggers the activation of this law would instantly become a pariah in the gun community. They would surely go out of business. Can anybody point me to more info about the dealer in California who was thinking about taking delivery? I'd like to know the full story there. Just how crazy was/is that FFL holder?

This gun won't activate the NJ law. At least, that's the way I read it. Anyone have a different take on the subject?

 

[Acera]

The law requires
...technology which ... cannot be readily deactivated...


This handgun does not meet that standard. Any RFID device can be remotely jammed, easily.

Ben, I take that is it can't be deactivated by a user, not remotely jammed. In other words, you can't buy (or steal) the gun, then take the offending parts off and have a normal functioning gun that is like any other we have now.

That makes more sense to me than worrying about a thug having a jamming device on him and activated as he enters your home rendering all 'smart' guns inactive......................however I am sure LEO will want that option

 

[benenglish]

Ben, I take that is it can't be deactivated by a user, not remotely jammed. In other words, you can't buy (or steal) the gun, then take the offending parts off and have a normal functioning gun that is like any other we have now.

That reading wouldn't have occurred to me. Pretty much anything that attempts to do this job will either block or un-block a mechanical device to disable the gun. The authorization and mechanical methods may vary, but in the end something has to physically block something else. If we grant that as fact, then all the legit user has to do to deactivate the device is do a bit of disassembly, find the moving part involved, push it to the "fire" position, and apply super glue.

I just assumed that any such device would be routinely deactivated by end users. Thus, the prohibition against deactivation would apply to people other than the owner of the gun.

Your reading makes sense, too, though.

Oddly, I see nothing in the statute that prohibits users from deactivating their own smart guns, placing them in a state of constant readiness.

I'm confused. It happens whenever I read laws that are crap, written by people who don't know what they're talking about.