WTB Glock 20 10MM or other Alaska gun

[Rango]

My dad always said that if you carried a handgun to protect yourself against the grizzlies, you needed to file the front sight off of the handgun. Thay way, when the bear takes it away from you and shoves it up your arse, it won't hurt hurt nearly so badly.

I was just going to post this! LOL!!!

OP- the first time I went to Alaska I wanted the original GLOCK 10mm. It had been announced but not shipped in time for my first trip. So I ended up with a 10mm Smith - 1006 I think... Second time I carried a Super Redhawk in .44 Mag with HOT ammo.
I ran across some locals when I was hiking out from fishing. They were headed in with a string of horses for the moose opener. Guy at the front of the string and the back of the string each had a 12ga. Loaded with slugs. They told me "If he's too far to shoot with a slug, you don't need to be shooting. If he charges, the slug is the only thing that will stop him." as the discussion continued the point was - Yes a 7mm mag (which they had for moose) will kill a Bear. But he may eat you before he bleeds out. The slug will break him so he can't come eat you!

When I go back I'll take both a 454 and a 870. I'll pick the one that goes each day based on circumstance.
Good Luck, Alaska is fantastic!

 

[BuzzinSATX]

One thing most of these “bear gun” conversations have in common is a lot of BS (bear scat)! LOL!

According to the article below, compiled in 2018, 97% of the Time a pistol was used to avert a bear attack, it was successful. They reviewed 37 incidents with handguns ranging from 9MM and up.

I have seen other articles with similar data, but this is the most comprehensive to date that I’m aware of.

And yes, I lived in both Alaska (8 years) and Montana (8 years) and fished and hunted a lot, not that it means much. Never had to shoot at or kill a bear.

Scariest critter I came head to head with was a cow moose and twin calves at 6 yards. That was edgy for a minute...

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz6F1j9Z23m

 

[vmax]

We need to get the Hollywod movies out of our minds.
It's not reality of being in bear country

 

[ZX9RCAM]

When I go back I'll take both a 454 and a 870. I'll pick the one that goes each day based on circumstance.
Good Luck, Alaska is fantastic!

I don't know why you wouldn't carry both.
Seems as though a shotgun won't do much good if it's on top of you.

 

[Glenn B]

Same way cops tell women that whistles , screaming and shitting themselves is the most effective way to stop a rape.
Ever wonder why this kind of advice is given?
You of all folks should have a pretty good understanding of the concepts of gross vs fine motor skills under stress. Would you whip out the OC on a subject that was an immediate threat to your life or health, or would you go to an option that has better odds of stopping the threat.

If you have the luxury of seeing the bear that has decided you are food then you have used up your good luck for a while. Avoid casinos and lottery tickets.

You are aware that the OC you carried on duty is about 2-3x more potent than anything sold as “bear spray, right?

Wrong. I'd like to see from where you get your "facts". Bear sprays are the most potent generally availble to LE and the public regarding levels of capsaicinoids. LE spray is not stronger than bear spray or at least it was not when I was an OC Spray instructor (when we were issued Sabre brand OC) nor was it stronger when I went to Alaska with my son.

Here is a link to Sabre's page relative to the strength of their Law Enforcement OC Sprays:
https://www.sabrered.com/law-enforcement-formulations-heat-strength-and-law
The strongest they offer is their Level III, it comes in at 1.33% major capsaicinoids and that is their strongest Law Enforcement OC Spray.

Here is a a link to Sabre's page on Formulations: Heat, Strength and the Law:
https://www.sabrered.com/formulations-heat-strength-and-law
It shows bear sprays coming in between 1.0 and 2.0% major capsaicinoids; here is a brief quote from that page but please go to it and read it all: "...and bear sprays range from 1.0% to 2.0% major capsaicinoids.".

This is a link to a chart showing major capsaicinoids levels in various level sprays:
https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/tactical-pepper-gel-flip-top-belt-holster

Bear sprays run as high as 2.0% (I have seen it on another site where it says they run up to 2.3%) major capsaicinoids and thus are stronger than LE spray at least with the brand I was issued on my job and that brand was Sabre.

When we went to Alaska, we got the most potent bear spray we could find, I believe it was UDAP, and it was stronger than what I had been issued on the job. So, on what factual evidence/documentation do you base your conclusion that what I used on my job was 2-3X more potent than bear spray when it's highest strength is 1.33% while the bear spray I purchased was 2.0%?

 

[Glenn B]

Bear sprays are the most potent generally availble to LE and the public regarding levels of capsaicinoids.

That sentence should have had the word "major" in front of capsaicinoids but for some reason there was no edit icon to go back to edit it.

 

[Hoji]

Wrong. I'd like to see from where you get your "facts". Bear sprays are the most potent generally availble to LE and the public regarding levels of capsaicinoids. LE spray is not stronger than bear spray or at least it was not when I was an OC Spray instructor (when we were issued Sabre brand OC) nor was it stronger when I went to Alaska with my son.

Here is a link to Sabre's page relative to the strength of their Law Enforcement OC Sprays:
https://www.sabrered.com/law-enforcement-formulations-heat-strength-and-law
The strongest they offer is their Level III, it comes in at 1.33% major capsaicinoids and that is their strongest Law Enforcement OC Spray.

Here is a a link to Sabre's page on Formulations: Heat, Strength and the Law:
https://www.sabrered.com/formulations-heat-strength-and-law
It shows bear sprays coming in between 1.0 and 2.0% major capsaicinoids; here is a brief quote from that page but please go to it and read it all: "...and bear sprays range from 1.0% to 2.0% major capsaicinoids.".

This is a link to a chart showing major capsaicinoids levels in various level sprays:
https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/tactical-pepper-gel-flip-top-belt-holster

Bear sprays run as high as 2.0% (I have seen it on another site where it says they run up to 2.3%) major capsaicinoids and thus are stronger than LE spray at least with the brand I was issued on my job and that brand was Sabre.

When we went to Alaska, we got the most potent bear spray we could find, I believe it was UDAP, and it was stronger than what I had been issued on the job. So, on what factual evidence/documentation do you base your conclusion that what I used on my job was 2-3X more potent than bear spray when it's highest strength is 1.33% while the bear spray I purchased was 2.0%?

If you were an OC instructor then you surely remembered from your Instructor Training that OC manufacturers can put anything they want on the label regardless of the actual concentrations. First Defense is one of the only manufacturers that actually list the real numbers( which MIGHT be why they are the preferred brand for a whole bunch of LE agencies and the preferred Instructor Class for department level Instructors.

 

[Glenn B]

Yes, as I already said, I was an OC Instructor so allow me to say there was no "if" about that. But you having said "if", I will reply one last time about this side tracked conversation. Being that I was one, I knew what were the important things to look for on the labels of OC spray. It was not the amount of oleoresin capsicum (OC), nor the listed Scoville Heat Units (SHU), it was the amount of major capsaicinoids (MC), just as it says on the Sabre website.

Sabre claims that major capsaicinoids are the way to measure the efficacy of an OC Spray and they say those are the real numbers (as you called them) that one needs to be concerned with when checking on the strength of such products. Funny thing is, so too does First Defense say the same in a piece from 1995, see: https://www.defense-technology.com/...thal/aerosol-reports/oc-and-pepper-sprays.pdf. So your choice company says the same thing that Sabre says about how to correctly measure the strength of OC sprays. Are you still going to imply Sabre is just saying whatever they want as if they are full of balderdash because that surely seems how you made it look by writing that any company can put whatever they want on a label after I mentioned what is on Sabre's label!

Based on the info on their website, the fact is that the strongest pepper spray, in normal aerosol form, that is offered under the First Defense name - on the Defense Technology (maker of First Defense OC Sprays) website (which I am pretty sure is part of the Safariland Group) - contains 1.3% major capsaicinoids! That is not as strong as bear spray. They list a spray foam at 10%, and it does not specify 10% of what, but when you bring up a photo of it, it says .2% on the can (which is one of the percentages they offer of major capsaicinoids in their sprays). From what I can gather, when they say they have a 10% foam OC Spray, they may mean just that it is made of 10% foam and that is not indicative of the strength of the major capsaicinoids. From what I have seen on others sites such as this linked one offering First Defense, their OC comes in three strengths .2%, .7% and their strongest 1.3%, see: http://www.pepperspraysetc.com/defense-technology/first-defense-1.3-red-band.html. Even the First Defense website itself shows strengths of OC Spray from .2% only going up to 1.3%, see: https://www.defense-technology.com/products/pepper-spray/. Sabre's is 1.33% MC (look at the list on the left side of the page and look at each product offered).

Sabre is the best known brand of OC Spray by far. It was the most used by LE back in my day; as for today I cannot say based upon my personal or professional experience but others do say it is the most popular and or the best for civilians and LE: https://bestsurvival.org/best-pepper-spray (pay attention to what this one says about your choice - First Defense, it has 1.33% major capsaicinoids); https://thoroughlyreviewed.com/outdoors/best-pepper-spray/; https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com...ion-of-sales-to-concerns-of-police-survivors/ (note what it says about Sabre in the first sentence and this from a LE site).

Regardless of which is better or used more by LE, the fact is bear spray is available in MC concentration stronger than civilian or LE OC spray - at least as far as I have been able to find. If you have some documentation that shows otherwise, other than what you come up with off the top of your head, please let me know about it as I always am open to learning new facts. Until that time, no more from me on this - I've said my piece and backed it up with what factual information which I was able to find.

As for the original subject, as I said - I'd carry both a firearms and bear spray. I'd also carry a belt knife the size of a K-Bar USMC Straight Edge as a last resort weapon (the K-Bar makes a great survival knife IMO).

 

[Sam7sf]

Surfing YouTube before bed. It’s crazy how powerful they are.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qmMBN8bpyzE

Just for laughs

 

[vmax]

Damn guys...

 

[ZX9RCAM]

 

[Hoji]

...

 

[deemus]

If you want some interesting reading not the topic of stopping bears, then take some time and poke around the Buffalo Bore Ammo page. The inventor of Buffalo Bore, Tim Sundles, has killed several Grizzlies and guided many other grizzly hunts.
He knows what it takes to stop a bear.

Here is a link to one of his excellent articles, but I suggest looking around the website for other great articles

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=108

Also, where you carry the sidearm is critical.
If you carry in your backpack, you might as well leave it in your vehicle.

Some hip carry but I bought a nice well fitting leather chest rig and wore it around for several days before my trip making sure it was adjusted correctly for all day carry.

Watched Win the Wilderness on Netflix last week. A reality show in Alaska. The locals had some variation of that rig with a big bore strapped in.

 

[deemus]

Obligatory story:

Guy hunting in Alaska gets attacked by a Bear. Gun unavailable. So this badass hugs the bear and bites down on his jugular vein.

The bear passes out.

He finds a log and bashes the bear’s head in.

Google it. It’s out there.

 

[Sam7sf]

Obligatory story:

Guy hunting in Alaska gets attacked by a Bear. Gun unavailable. So this badass hugs the bear and bites down on his jugular vein.

The bear passes out.

He finds a log and badges the bear’s head in.

Google it. It’s out there.

What a monster of a man.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Was it an LTC badge?

 

[deemus]

Was it an LTC badge?

I was on a roll this morning....

 

[phatduc]

I have both a 454 Cassul and 44mag SW629. The titanium 629 is far more amenable to comfortably carry in the woods, and the 44mag is sufficient to stop Montana grizzlies and more concerning mountain lion, so that is in the holster on hunts in backcountry. For pistol hunting it's the 454. Whatever you choose make sure you have a good comfortable holster.

 

[jimirwin2023]

If you rely on a semi auto for bear defense , leave a will. You are not fast enough. Accept that and get a big bore, short barreled revolver( think Ruger Alaskan in a caliber that’s begins with “4” and ends with magnum or Casull.

The semi is almost guaranteed to have a malfunction due to apex carnivore hair/fur fouling the action after it grabs you and starts to shake you. Short barreled super magnum will not. Place the bangy part of the gun against the bitey part of the brown bear and deliver hate until it stops biting.

Seems a LOT more likely to foul the DA revolver than the semi auto.

I have just the thing for you.
Springfield in 460 Rowland. 45 cal bullets at 1500fps, equal to the 44 mag for whomp-ass.
I love my Glock 20 & 40 pistols and they do kick ass more than most else. The Desert Eagle 50 AE is too unwieldy for such carry purposes, so I make do with 460 Rowland.
My Rowland comes with Recoil Rebound spring, muzzle compensator, 45acp barrel, and about 6 mags and a bunch of ammo.

 

[ShadyOaksGunRange]

Consider the Smith&Wesson Model625 with Buffalo Bore 45+P+, 200 or 255gr Hardcast. The Revolver Reliability is maintained, ballistics may just beat the 10mm.
,