History lesson "Treaty of Tripoli"
- Thread starter texas1willy2
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Nope. You have the freedom to say what you want, within certain limitations. I can, indeed, refuse to listen. But you cannot push it on me, i.e., force me to listen, require me to tithe, require me to attend services, require a professed religion as a condition of employment, and so on.
Please re-read my post. You are aguing a point that I am not making.
I never said I could "push" it on you or that you had to listen, or tithe, or attend services or any of the other stuff. I said I am free to preach to anyone who will listen.
A religious diatribe poorly cloaked as "politics" isn't fooling anyone, except maybe you. My point is that a religious post shouldn't even be on this website. I guess I was too subtle in my first post. The name of this site is "Texas Gun Talk" and there are no subheadings named "Religion". If there were, I would ignore it. As it is, I have a reasonable expectation of not reading a post which poorly purports to be politics but is in reality religious propaganda.
Yeah, you did, Post #10:
Originally Posted by TimberWolf7.62
It does, but freedom of religion is not freedom to push yours on me.
texascop2: Actually it is freedom to do exactly that.
My bad....to clarify: my point is that anyone is free to preach to you all day long, if you choose to listen. If you dont choose to listen you have the right not to.
Why do you think you have this "reasonable expectation"? Many believe that this is very much related to politics.
In reading back over this thread, it appears you DO have a dog in this fight, or choose to have one when you posted your first post, which was a way of insulting the believe of the OP with revisionist history.
What you believe is your business, and what I believe is my business. I'm happy to share with anyone who WANTS to listen, and I'm happy to listen to other peoples believes...
And yet, you want to defend a position that you have no faith and everyone should leave you alone, yet you want to push your NOT having to listen back on them...why not just extend the courtesy you are seeking and shut the hell up? I'm SURE that is you quit posting and pointing fingers that no one would feel the need to try to chase you down and corner you to force you to listen to what they believe.
Just saying...
Look I know what you're up to, you think if you come in my thread, cause a big enough stink they so they will lock the thread. Maybe you think that being a atheist affords you special rights to censor content on a website you have nothing to do with? What you're missing here is like it or not this is a very important part of out history, people would love to rewrite our heritage and take this stuff out. Most people want to know the truth not a watered down version of it created by liberal professors.
So why don't you please leave my thread/topics alone and join in when the subject matter is more suited for your taste?
Back to the treaty yes, it was ratified. At the time we didn't have a Navy and our ships were being attacked by pirates. We also had to pay ransoms to get captives back.
In less than 3 years after that we built our Navy and broke that very treaty. Not only that, but after we defeated them at Tripoloy, we wrote up a new treaty with the questionable language mysteriously missing. Everything else about the new treaty is basically the same with the exception of the language about a Christian country.
Basically, the govt had no option except to sign the treaty at that time and they had the treaty changed as soon as they had a Navy. The unanimous vote in the Senate does't really mean that much as the Senate at that time often tried to show a united front.
In less than 3 years after that we built our Navy and broke that very treaty. Not only that, but after we defeated them at Tripoloy, we wrote up a new treaty with the questionable language mysteriously missing. Everything else about the new treaty is basically the same with the exception of the language about a Christian country.
Basically, the govt had no option except to sign the treaty at that time and they had the treaty changed as soon as they had a Navy. The unanimous vote in the Senate does't really mean that much as the Senate at that time often tried to show a united front.
A little off topic, but one of the things I like about this website is that it doesn't push a bunch of Jesus crap along with truly useful information about firearms; unlike many other gun-themed message boards. Can we please save the God talk for religious forums?
Don't read it. When you see the Name of Jesus, do you feel some kind of tazer effect or something? What is it that makes you jump back when you see that Name or hear mention of it? I'm just wondering why you hate God so much. He loves you. He really does. Dig that!
So y'alls idea of a forum is for posters to put only material that you agree with so you can stick a bunch of smiley faces and +1's on?
It doesn't matter how polite we are you are still going to get offended? Waste of bandwidth thats a unique angle, wouldn't it be easier to say "there's too many words here for me to read?"
Everyone wants to sit around (rightly so) and complain about the direction our nations headed, how and why do you think it's happening? I've given list of documents from our founding fathers of how our nation was meant to be run, the principles it was founded by. This nation is being taken apart piece by piece and it's being done by the same type of people complaining in this very thread.
The further we get from one place the closer we get to another......this nation started out in the right place.
It doesn't matter how polite we are you are still going to get offended? Waste of bandwidth thats a unique angle, wouldn't it be easier to say "there's too many words here for me to read?"
Everyone wants to sit around (rightly so) and complain about the direction our nations headed, how and why do you think it's happening? I've given list of documents from our founding fathers of how our nation was meant to be run, the principles it was founded by. This nation is being taken apart piece by piece and it's being done by the same type of people complaining in this very thread.
The further we get from one place the closer we get to another......this nation started out in the right place.
Yep...
I don't like it when people say I'm "what's wrong with this country", or I have no morals just because I don't believe in the same religion they do. Especially when I'd agree with them on 98% of other issues (which is the vast majority of our members here). Those of you who insist that the only path to fixing our country is through god are losing a lot of folks that would stand by you otherwise. Faith can't fix our problems any better than hope and change has.
I'm a die hard skeptic... If there is god, he must have created me that way.
I'm a die hard skeptic... If there is god, he must have created me that way.
And I respect your right to believe that and spread your beliefs to those who will accept them. Please respect mine right not to.
Nobody here said that Christianity was the only way nor that you had to believe in it. Just that our founders based the beginning of our nation on the same moral principles found in Christianity. Once that was said there was a rabid response of "quit pushing religion on me!" which I have yet to see anyone try to do.
I agree 100%.
What I'm reading in that Treaty Of Tripoli writeup is that Washington agreed that our government is a secular one. The prohibition against state religion in the BOR would tend to support that fact, IMO. Many of our Founders were deists , which is where much of their rejection of organized religion and the clergy comes from. There is also some backlash going on there, as the Church of England was one of the tools of English oppression in the colonies. Not all clergy worked for the Brits, though, but I think that some Founders recognized that organized religion as a threat to liberty.
These guys were not atheists as some assert. Probably a couple were, but not very many of them. What were they? Anti-authoritarian, and organized religion tends toward authoritarian. More so in those days.
