Houston police mistake armed businessman for burglar

[matefrio]

I would raise my hands, introduce myself as the business owner and cooperate slowly. However, here's the latest news from the latest article posted:



It's hard to tell from the video, but I think that the officers started firing when they saw the two storming out of the door with guns.

You watch the video?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Under the circumstances I am seeing, the individuals walk out the door & would only be able to see bright lights & figures ....no way to immediately
tell they were LEOs (not even a marked patrol car) & not somebody attempting to rob them.....maybe I am viewing it wrong?

 

[matefrio]

With the video I think everyone got lucky that night.

Lack of communication before the event took place that the police were on stake out.

The owner\manager willing to leave a safe place and enter a dark alley that they KNEW was occupied by a "Threat" through an obvious squeeze point into unknown circumstances.

I see\hear threats on the perimeter and I'm hunkering down under some cover and calling 911 with the report I'm armed and expecting trouble.

 

[West Texas]

When this thread was first posted, I started to add what I wrote in this PM, then thought I'd wait a bit...I did sent it to TxInvestigator, who has since flamed me as being "anit-cop" because of the incident I told him about in thw PM that follows.

I think that maybe, in view of all that is coming to light in this case, that TxCop had it right...that the most valuable weapon an officer can have is the skill to properly asess and defuse a situation.

There are a LOT of grey areas in this case, and simply knocking on the door if the LEO thought something was going on, identifying themsleves as police and asking what's up could have kept everyone involved from being spooked to the point of shoots being fired. If you are the LEO, and REALLY think something is going on, call for back-up before you proceed.

If the business owner thought there was someone tring to break in, he had a phone, call the police and sit tight. If a BG comes in, ventilate them, if the cops out back get a call on the radio from dispatch saying the business owner is inside and thinks he heard something in the alley, and they know THEY are in the alley....well, then we can all use our heads...

The business owners are scared because there have been break ins in the past and they are hearing someone rattle locks on the doors of the building.

The cops are on edge because there have been break ins in the area and they are hearing someone inside.

Bad situation because NO ONE is communicating. Had anyone of used thier head in this situation, there would have been nothing to report.

Here's the PM I sent to TxInvestigator about dealings I had one night with LEO that now has me labeled "anti-cop" -

I started to post this in the thread in answer to your comment, but thought maybe a PM would be better.

For 40 years my family was in the pharmacy business, had as many 16 stores at one time, 5 of which were in San Angelo, a town of 100,000, and a place where we were very well known and respected...

One night, while on a patient emergency oxygen call, I was at the door, key in the lock, pistol in my other hand, very well marked company vehicle parked not more than 10 feet from me, running, lights on, with my wife and 2 kids in it, when a SAPD car slids up, not pulls up gently, but slides up, in to the parking spot next to where I was parked. I saw it was a patrol car by the reflextion in the glass, and started to turn my head, JUST my head, thinking it would probably be an officer I knew, when an officer jumped out, gun drawn over the door demanding that I get on the ground. No alarm going off, nothing to signal there was a problem, just an officer driving by and saw the vehicle and me at the door. Made me lay on the ground, made my wife get out of the COMPANY vehicle and lay on the ground, hand cuffed us both, and had two young boys (both under 10 at the time) move to the back seat of his car. With me telling the guy the whole time who I was, that I owned the place and there was no reason for this to be going on.

The NEXT officer on the scene knew me and told the first officer that he really should let me up, take off the handcuffs and return my weapon, and he should do so quickly.

The officers reason for doing this? He saw my weapon. He ignored EVERYTHING else, but saw the weapon. I'm going in to a well lit pharmacy at night with a compnay vehicle, running, with the head lights on the door giving even MORE light, and all he saw was the weapon?

When going on after hours calls, I NEVER went alone, and I ALWAYS carried a weapon, and made no secret of it. It's the smart thing to do, period. There was another one in the car that he found as well, but since it was on the seat beside my wife, he had no way of knowing that until way after the fact, even though he stated later that he saw BOTH weapons. X-ray vision I guess.

So, when I read stories like this one, and I'm left to fill in the blanks on my own, I'm reminded of a WAY over zelalous officer one night, and that if I had tried to reason with him at all, I would have been shot, in front of the wife and two kids, for attempting to enter my own property at about 9pm on a thursday night.

By the way, that first officer on the scene? He's no longer in LE ANYWHERE. I made SURE of that. And if what went down in Houston was anything close to this, those business owners need to do the same.

I understand about the safety of the officer, but there is also the safety of the others involved, and sometimes a simple question, asked in a polite manner from a safe vantage point can keep bad things from happening to good people on BOTH sides of the badge!

Take care!!

A couple of points I want to clarify. One, the weapon in my hand...it was a .38spl 5shot revolver, in my right hand, beside my body, away from the street (the building did not face the street, it sat sideways to the main street) and no way for it to be seen by the officer. I didn't make this point clear to TI in my PM, though I did attempt to in follow-up pm's. The officer had his duty weapon already drawn when he opened his car door and he was ordering me to the ground before he could see that I was armed. I did inform him of the fact that I was armed as he was ordering me to the ground. At NO point did he ask who I was or what I was doing, yet I tried to tell him, as did my wife as she was ordered out and to the ground, and by my screaming kids as they were removed from my company vehicle and placed in the patrol car by the officer, pulling them by the back of the collar of their shirts.

 

[Clockwork]

I would equate a law enforcement officer not being proficient with the use of their firearm to military service members failing PT tests.

If somebody on Active Duty takes their career seriously then they will PT during their off-duty time if they are getting insufficient amounts of PT during duty hours. In my own mind the same should hold true for a peace officer. If a LEO is dangerously inaccurate with their application of the use of deadly force then they endanger themselves, their partners, and the general public with their negligence.

In this case I'm glad that the buisnessmen were not hit, but I also believe given the circumstances that the officers were right in their escalation of force by ordering the man (men?) to lay down their weapons and instead the man (men?) chambered a round. As said, I'm glad that they were not hit but not hitting them is also inexcusable given the seriousness of the incident.

Is it possible that the officers fired a "warning shot" at the suspects?

 

[West Texas]

I would equate a law enforcement officer not being proficient with the use of their firearm to military service members failing PT tests.

If somebody on Active Duty takes their career seriously then they will PT during their off-duty time if they are getting insufficient amounts of PT during duty hours. In my own mind the same should hold true for a peace officer. If a LEO is dangerously inaccurate with their application of the use of deadly force then they endanger themselves, their partners, and the general public with their negligence.

In this case I'm glad that the buisnessmen were not hit, but I also believe given the circumstances that the officers were right in their escalation of force by ordering the man (men?) to lay down their weapons and instead the man (men?) chambered a round. As said, I'm glad that they were not hit but not hitting them is also inexcusable given the seriousness of the incident.

Is it possible that the officers fired a "warning shot" at the suspects?

AIMED Point Shooting or P&S

 

[mrseatle]

Drop My Gun?

hell no, it might get scratched!

 

[West Texas]

Drop My Gun?

hell no, it might get scratched!

When I LAID my gun down, the nice officer came over and KICKED IT across the sidewalk with it sliding about 15 feet...making a MESS of the blueing on that side as well as the walnut grips....

 

[mrseatle]

Lay down on the Ground?

Hell no! That's against my religion... besides it's dirty down there.