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How about we build our own members only range

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  • haze10

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    Jan 9, 2010
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    I am going to take some heat about this but let me try anyway. I moved down to Granbury (35miles SW FW) last October. I was living in Rhode Island prior. There was only one public range in Rhode Island which was run by the State to obtain Federal grant money. Rules were very prohibitive and the range was not utilized by many. But what we did have were private clubs. I belonged to one pistol club, indoors only, two ranges, one 50 feet with manual hand crank targets and one 75 feet with electric run targets. We had a meeting room, bathroom, and a gun cleaning room. You accessed the range via an electronic card, and hours were 6am to 10pm 7 days a week. Cost was $150/year and we had 450 members. It was an NRA insured range so you had to also be a NRA member. For rifle and shotgun I belonged to another range in the country (country for RI anyway) where we had a clubhouse to sit 100, indoor pistol range in the basement, 100, 200, 300 yard rifle range, and a 50/25 yard small rifle/pistol outdoor range. For shotgun we had both a skeet and a trap range. We also had a private 30 acre lake for those who wanted to fish. Membership was $200/yr and we had 250 members. Hours were 9am to dusk, but there was some days when the range was closed during deer season. Forgot to mention, we had 600 acres and members could hunt on the property.

    Now while I wasn't born in Texas I did get here as soon as I could. Don't take this the wrong way, and send my arse packing, but I am dissappointed that there isn't better ranges or clubs in the area. 100 yards is not far for a rifle range, and all the indoor pistol ranges are pay per visit with a fair amount of restrictions. I guess its because in Texas there are a lot of people with land and you shoot on your own property. I called the sheriff and asked him about shooting on my property and he said as long as I was outside the city limits, there were no restricitions. So I constructed a 50 feet pistol range with a 6 feet dirt burm that can handle two shooters. But even with that I have neighbors complaining (it upsets my dogs, my cats, a stray bullet may hit my child, etc) This is not the burps, and I am 200 feet from the nearest house, but still it would be better to have more than 8 acres.

    My point is not to complain about Texas, as this is generally a progun state which I love. But to see if there is anything we can do to make it better. Land is cheap here, in general terms. And the government is not anti gun. A club that brings in 400 members x $175/yr is $70,000 per year. This sound like enough to amortize a loan or repair investors. 20 investors at $20K each would be $400K. The dues would amortize the loan as well as pay for day to day.

    By the way, the pistol club with 400 members, most of the time I was the only one there or there might be one or two others. There was 20 bays and I never once had to wait for someone to leave. The club would hold matches, but then use only one range leaving the other open to the members.

    The one unknown I have is whether or not a range in someplace like Cresson or Godley would be able to get the 400 members. I would think it might but not here long enough to know the community.
    What do you think, would something like this work here.
    Target Sports
     

    navyguy

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    Oct 22, 2008
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    I doubt I could front up 20k, but for $175 a year and unlimited access I'd be there if I could get to it in and hour or less travel time. I don't know if that's the input you're looking for, but I personally have little experience with setting up such things.
     

    TexasRedneck

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    Jan 23, 2009
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    Don't think anyone is gonna bust your chops, bud - you have good observations that you present in a non-judgemental manner. Now, let's look at the business end....

    Go price about 100 acres - or whatever size lot of land you think would be necessary to preclude issues with neighbors. Make sure it's close enough in to be able to draw potential clients. When you have a ball park price, holler an' we'll go on to the next step. What I'm trying to do is "use" you to kinda educate everyone involved in just what's involved in an operation like this, and just what might be encountered along the way. While you're at it, drop a note to the NRA about what's involved in developing a safe and proper range.

    This will be both fun and educational - and who knows, it MAY stir up some potential investors with deep pockets - because I have a feeling it's gonna take a bit more than you anticipate....<G>
     

    fnmedallion

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    Mar 29, 2009
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    haslet texas
    to be close enuf for folks in the dfw & surround almost any land is 1k++peracre the buildings could be accomplished w/sweat equity probly 2days dirt work w/a med size cat a boat load of concrete work and then the biiiigggg nut insurance!!!! not that it can't be done but maybe the other thing is to look for is a range already established that might be on hard times to purchase or lease
     

    TexasRedneck

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    ummmm....$1k/acre? Really? You're closer, and likely know the market better, but from what I've heard, you'll do good getting land under $5k an acre if it's remotely close to the D/FW metro area...again - this is a variable that I can't speak to directly.

    Remember that any structure is going to require a CofO - which translates to meeting codes as a COMMERCIAL structure - which will essentially rule out a "DIY" type build-out, unless those doing so are licensed, because any insurance company is gonna want to know the structure was built to code, too. The range dirt work will be less expensive - but the benches, covers, etc, are gonna be expensive to do right - and if you don't do 'em right, folks won't be coming back.
     

    fnmedallion

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    haslet texas
    that's why the 1k+++ as for co if you are in the country out of city limit it does not apply insurance ref. was for liability only my post was merely intended as an i opener and nothing else
     

    TexasRedneck

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    Hey - obviously, you don't know Texas, and how we operate. We sit by quietly until the first idio...er, person, complains about somethin'. We then make it his/her job to figger out how to fix it. After all, you already KNEW how simple it would be to make it financially viable - all we need now is a bit of detail work to finalize a business plan!<G>
    100 acres at $1k/acre vs 100 acres at 10k/acre is gonna be a few bucks difference - and frankly, I'm gonna be surprised if you find it even at 10k/acre. And you think there are no rules if you're out of the city limits? Really? Ummmm.....tell you what you do - call your insurance company and ask 'em about insuring a structure that way. Remember this little "gotcha" - when you start talking about commercial operations, you had BEST do things properly, or you'll play hob ever opening your doors. And you're going to open a gun range with NO insurance? So if someone breaks in and trashes the offices, an' burns 'em to the ground we just suck it up and pay for repairs out of pocket? ummmmmm......no!<G>
    Again - I'm not busting on you, but what I'm challenging you to do is take your original scenario out a few more steps to get a better feel for just what's involved. Look at it this way - once done, and one of your buddies starts mouthing off, you can bet him he's wrong, and already have the backup to prove it!
     

    PaknSiG

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    Oct 21, 2009
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    There is/was an outdoor range called Rock Creek that was off FM1902 between FM1187 and FM917. It is/was close to Crowley, Godley, and Joshua. I don't know what happened to it but it went out of business I think due to some legal matters when it was sold a couple of years ago. They had just replaced the covered pistol and rifle ranges. They also had shotgun areas with skeet, clays, etc. They also had a large building for get togethers with outdoor patio and grills. I would like to see it come back.

    TM
     

    fnmedallion

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    haslet texas
    Hey - obviously, you don't know Texas, and how we operate. We sit by quietly until the first idio...er, person, complains about somethin'. We then make it his/her job to figger out how to fix it. After all, you already KNEW how simple it would be to make it financially viable - all we need now is a bit of detail work to finalize a business plan!<G>
    100 acres at $1k/acre vs 100 acres at 10k/acre is gonna be a few bucks difference - and frankly, I'm gonna be surprised if you find it even at 10k/acre. And you think there are no rules if you're out of the city limits? Really? Ummmm.....tell you what you do - call your insurance company and ask 'em about insuring a structure that way. Remember this little "gotcha" - when you start talking about commercial operations, you had BEST do things properly, or you'll play hob ever opening your doors. And you're going to open a gun range with NO insurance? So if someone breaks in and trashes the offices, an' burns 'em to the ground we just suck it up and pay for repairs out of pocket? ummmmmm......no!<G>
    Again - I'm not busting on you, but what I'm challenging you to do is take your original scenario out a few more steps to get a better feel for just what's involved. Look at it this way - once done, and one of your buddies starts mouthing off, you can bet him he's wrong, and already have the backup to prove it!
    opening doors for a commercial operation??? where did this come from an idea for 40-50 people in a private club venture, and at 10k per you are not building 1/4 mil houses you need trash land that nobody else wants i am sorry but you have seemed to have taken a few steps from the "original" scenario
     

    Renegade

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    Now while I wasn't born in Texas I did get here as soon as I could. Don't take this the wrong way, and send my arse packing, but I am dissappointed that there isn't better ranges or clubs in the area. 100 yards is not far for a rifle range, and all the indoor pistol ranges are pay per visit with a fair amount of restrictions

    Don't take this the wrong way, but one of the reasons at least 1/2 dozen or more ranges (and at least another dozen private properties I know of) have closed in the last few years in DFW area is suburban sprawl to build homes for people coming to Texas from out of state.

    We used to have lots of places to shoot.. 20 years ago, I used to go shooting along Preston Road just South of Parker on the West side. Now it is all homes and mini-malls.

    It is a difficult problem to solve when land has such high value, the incentive to sell, as well as political pressure is very high.
     

    TexasRedneck

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    opening doors for a commercial operation??? where did this come from an idea for 40-50 people in a private club venture, and at 10k per you are not building 1/4 mil houses you need trash land that nobody else wants i am sorry but you have seemed to have taken a few steps from the "original" scenario

    I agree on the trash land - problem is, it's harder and harder to come by. They're building on stuff that no one wanted 20 years ago! And even though it may be a "private" club, the insurance folks (and any regulatory folks) are going to view much of it through commercial eyes, IMO. A group of us looked at a similar situation many years back in San Antonio, and found just that scenario. We went from a 20k start-up, and pulled the plug when the projections hit 200k!
    Let's take it from that view....50 folks. $200/year membership dues. That's what - $10k/year? IF you could do a bare-bones start-up for 200k (and believe me, it adds up quick), that's about $14,400 a year in debt service alone. And then there's property taxes....even if you can get livestock exemption on it, it's still gotta be paid. Could it be done? Oh, yeah - but you really need someone with some very deep pockets to help get things rolling, and then it's still a helluva crap shoot.
     

    TexasRedneck

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    stick a fork in me i'm done

    No - please don't!! Seriously - I'm NOT trying to poke holes in it, just relating my own experiences. We didn't have pockets deep enough to do it at the time, mainly because there we SO many unanticipated costs that we hadn't even considered. I still think upscale ranges CAN work - but as I said, you need some deep pockets and some careful thought before jumping into it.
     

    Texas42

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    . . . and if there are any good, private ranges in the SA area that are closer than half way to Austin, I think you'd find at least one person willing to shell out $150-$250 a year.

    : )
     

    haze10

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    Jan 9, 2010
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    Granbury
    Well I am glad the idea was met with positively. To clarify, my original thought was about 4 to 5 acres of land with just the one indoor pistol range. I was thinking $10K/acre with $350K for the building. The best place for insurance would be the NRA, both ranges in RI were NRA insured and they are probably the only ones that can do it. The indoor pistol range in RI was in East Providence in a residential area. But the buildign was insulated with no windows, and you could only hear gunfire outside within 50 feet or so.

    The thing with most of these clubs is that they were built decades ago when land and building was cheap, and there was basically no restrictions by the government. The reason I think it worked in RI was because we had good population density. But I am thinking if it were close enough to FW it might fly.

    I'll contact the NRA and inquire about insurance and report back.
     

    navyguy

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    I don't think the folks that responded here were being negative, but rather realistic in pointing out the problems with such a project. Believe me, I wish such a deal could be worked out, but I'm afraid unless there is someone with deep pockets it's unlikely in an urban area like DFW. If we are talking some more remote areas like west Texas, or Pamapa or others, maybe. But if someone just wanted to buy some land... say 100 acres and shoot on it and invite friends, that's a different deal from a club with all that entails. Once you start charging people to shoot, you open the door to all of the legal issues.

    Don't get scared off by the banter. We're all in the same boat.
     

    Double Naught Spy

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    Check out the text from Adrenaline Proving Ground's opening page. It says Welcome, but do not come and don't call more than once because our members have caused undue harm. This is just one aspect of running a range, but a very real aspect. Contrary to what many may think, there really is a goodly amount of maintenance and upkeep that goes beyond buying the land and installing a few berms.

    WELCOME TO ADRENALINE PROVING GROUNDS!

    THE RANGE IS TEMPORARILY CLOSED DUE TO THE LACK OF RESPECT TO THE PROPERTY! Call for openings and check this section for updates, if you don't get an answer, don't keep calling. That means no one is at the office. Don't drive out and ask us the code for the gate either. Those days are over. The old saying, "give someone an inch, and they'll take a mile," defines this situation.

    Due to the amount of rain and shooters failing to realize that their VEHICLES cause serious damage to the ranges, we will close until it is dry. To educate some of you, when the ground freezes, like we had for several days, and then thaws out, it cause the ground to float, making it worse the typical rain conditions or just mud.

    The gate is locked. For those of you who don't believe, just drive by. This is by far the worst our range is looked in 4 years!! We tried to be accommodating, but the ignorance of a few cost others and above all US!! We need to be open as much as you want to shoot, but stupidity actually cost us more than being closed.
    P.S.

    The Breakdown to repair:
    Super Duty truck-Diesel @ $2.89 gL
    Heavyduty Trailer-
    Skid Steer Loader-Diesel same as above
    Expensive Grass Seed/winter mix and summer bermuda.
    Time off other job to fix @ $500 a day.

    There is a SIGN that's been posted since April of 2006 "keep vehicles off ranges" and The office manager makes this very clear upon check in.

    , *Just a reminder, when the gate is locked and you enter the property it is CRIMINAL TRESPASSING: Class B Misdemeanor and you may be subject to prosecution! Call 888-524-4108. Thank you.

    Welcome to the new and improved APG website. Now when you become a member of our website you can plan your events, upload photos, chat with other shooters, trade emails, start discussions, post blogs and more!
     
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