I Paid My Annual Rent (AKA Property Tax)

[perfor8]

And tell me, if $3k in tax comes by property tax how much does your bank account go down? $3k.
If $3k comes by sales tax (or any other tax), how much does your bank account go down? $3k.

If you think changing the type of tax will save you the $3k, YOU are acting like Bernie. And just as wrong and delusional.

I guess you win the argument if someone denies that $3000 equals $3000. You've deployed a flamethrower on that straw-man. But that's not the argument. The argument is that strategies and ability to avoid taxes differ depending on ones circumstances. The Commifornians aren't enroute because they're wrong and delusional - they're quite capable of doing the math.

My property tax bill went up since I moved to Texas in 2017, by about $12,000 in 3 years, but my income taxes went down by over $400,000 in the same period. You didn't think I moved down here for the pleasant summer afternoons did you? So, there are situational reasons one would prefers one type of tax over another. When property taxes here go to $150,000/year, I may get to return to my Okie roots.

I don't like property tax OR income tax. I have to plan my whole family's life around them. Lately I'm looking at real estate in Wyoming...

 

[oldag]

With property tax we never actually own our homes. If you want to rent from the government I don't know what to say.

Show me a local school board that has ever lowered taxes in Texas, short of a district closing.

If you want to talk tax theory, I want a flat tax amount, not a flat percentage. That won't happen so I'll settle for a flat tax. One flat tax to cover all levels of .gov. No other taxes of any kind.

Actually, school taxes have been lowered before. Go research it. But this happened when the people in the district got off their butts, spoke up and got involved. The lack of this is why it does not happen more often.

If you can't understand the bottom line, I don't know what to say.

Don't pay that flat tax and see what gets confiscated by the government for nonpayment. I'll give you a hint. Your home will be the first thing. So what is the difference? None.

 

[oldag]

I guess you win the argument if someone denies that $3000 equals $3000. You've deployed a flamethrower on that straw-man. But that's not the argument. The argument is that strategies and ability to avoid taxes differ depending on ones circumstances. The Commifornians aren't enroute because they're wrong and delusional - they're quite capable of doing the math.

My property tax bill went up since I moved to Texas in 2017, by about $12,000 in 3 years, but my income taxes went down by over $400,000 in the same period. You didn't think I moved down here for the pleasant summer afternoons did you? So, there are situational reasons one would prefers one type of tax over another. When property taxes here go to $150,000/year, I may get to return to my Okie roots.

I don't like property tax OR income tax. I have to plan my whole family's life around them. Lately I'm looking at real estate in Wyoming...

And you are not comparing apples to apples. I am not talking about Cali or Wyoming. I am talking about Texas.

But even in any case, regardless of what state all that matters is the total tax a person paid at the end of the year. Not the type tax that took the money.

 

[TX OMFS]

Interesting idea but it'll never happen. Every little specialty tax out there has a constituency that will fight tooth and nail to keep it in place.

Heck, even the average TGTer is in one of those constituencies. Pittman-Robertson ring a bell?

Everyone's a conservative until it's their pet project on the block.

Get off my lawn & leave me alone.

 

[benenglish]

Everyone's a conservative until it's their pet project on the block.

Yep.

Get off my lawn & leave me alone.

Sometimes I feel disheartened like that, too.

 

[boomgoesthedynamite]

The issue I have with property taxes is the property is reassessed. If your value was fixed when you bought it, that would be fine. You buy a house and your taxes are 6k a year. You know that. The next year they are 6600, then 7500, etc.

That is one thing California did right; fix values at each transaction. Let the city and state work with the revenue they had, not getting a bump each year. In my town, the per capita tax has more than doubled in a few short years. Argue about rates and how they "lowered" the rate but your tax still went up.

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[pronstar]

The issue I have with property taxes is the property is reassessed. If your value was fixed when you bought it, that would be fine. You buy a house and your taxes are 6k a year. You know that. The next year they are 6600, then 7500, etc.

That is one thing California did right; fix values at each transaction. Let the city and state work with the revenue they had, not getting a bump each year. In my town, the per capita tax has more than doubled in a few short years. Argue about rates and how they "lowered" the rate but your tax still went up.

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You prolly know this but for those who are unaware:

Prop 13 was enacted when the state was conservative.

The Dems are chipping away at it, it may be gone within a decade.

They realize that tax rolls have not kept up with the staggering increase in property values.

Good example:
My parents bought their house in 1976 for $32k, which is their property tax basis.

Their house is valued at close to $700k now.



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[perfor8]

And you are not comparing apples to apples. I am not talking about Cali or Wyoming. I am talking about Texas.

But even in any case, regardless of what state all that matters is the total tax a person paid at the end of the year. Not the type tax that took the money.

You were talking about a state income tax, how is that talking about Texas?

Yes, all that matters (if speaking pragmatically and not philosophically) is the amount of the total tax. But the type of tax necessarily affects the total. If Texas engaged in the taxation of income instead of property, my taxes would be orders of magnitude higher. No taxpayer would pay an identical amount in income tax as they do property tax. Some would pay more, some less. None would go from exactly $3000 in property tax to exactly $3000 in income tax. They aren't apples to apples.

 

[perfor8]

I hate property tax. I really hate it. I will never own my house nor will my kids. If we ever fail to pay Uncle Sugar his tax it will be taken at gunpoint and sold, literally, on the courthouse steps.

Any ideas to get rid of it?

My first thought is get rid of it, cut the budgets to where they should be, and re-evaluate. Even our beloved red state pays for too much unnecessary crap. I'd rather pay a sales tax, which I can avoid by not buying stuff, than to rent my property from the government.

/rant

I agree completely.

My situation is particularly aggravating. My property is wholly in County A, but I pay property taxes in both County A and County B. Supposedly has something to do with school districts. Ironically, we home school our kids.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I agree completely.

My situation is particularly aggravating. My property is wholly in County A, but I pay property taxes in both County A and County B. Supposedly has something to do with school districts. Ironically, we home school our kids.

Not unusual; I show up on Bexar Co for most taxes, then Kendall Co for Boerne ISD only. Mortgagor staples then together and pays both bills on my behalf.

 

[MTA]

Hell, I am still of the opinion that non-property owners should not be able to vote, especially when it comes to increasing proprty tax, bonds that impact property tax, or rent control!

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Probably never have a democrat politician ever elected again if this were the case

 

[benenglish]

Don't pay that flat tax and see what gets confiscated by the government for nonpayment. I'll give you a hint. Your home will be the first thing.

No. Not even close.

If the federal government instituted a flat income tax to replace everything else then nonpayment would be pursued by the Internal Revenue Service. Internal Revenue Code 6334(e) has been in force for 20 years or so. It requires the IRS to turn a case over the the DOJ who must sue in Federal District Court before a home can be seized. The DOJ isn't interested in such small potatoes and rarely follows up. Even if you add other property such as cars (which are administratively simpler to seize) to the numbers, there are less than 1000 total real and personal property seizures per year for unpaid taxes. Far less.

Almost no one loses their home due to unpaid federal income taxes. It's not as unlikely as winning the lottery but it's darn close. The number of homes the IRS seizes each year to satisfy tax liens is so low it's just statistical noise.

Bottom line - Your fears are completely unjustified.

Bottom, bottom line - People who are afraid of all the terrible things the IRS can do to them are engaged in thinking that's roughly 30 years out of date. Yes, bad stuff happens and I'm sure folks on here can tell stories but currently those horror stories are so statistically rare they can be reasonably treated as if they don't exist.

 

[oldag]

No. Not even close.

If the federal government instituted a flat income tax to replace everything else then nonpayment would be pursued by the Internal Revenue Service. Internal Revenue Code 6334(e) has been in force for 20 years or so. It requires the IRS to turn a case over the the DOJ who must sue in Federal District Court before a home can be seized. The DOJ isn't interested in such small potatoes and rarely follows up. Even if you add other property such as cars (which are administratively simpler to seize) to the numbers, there are less than 1000 total real and personal property seizures per year for unpaid taxes. Far less.

Almost no one loses their home due to unpaid federal income taxes. It's not as unlikely as winning the lottery but it's darn close. The number of homes the IRS seizes each year to satisfy tax liens is so low it's just statistical noise.

Bottom line - Your fears are completely unjustified.

Bottom, bottom line - People who are afraid of all the terrible things the IRS can do to them are engaged in thinking that's roughly 30 years out of date. Yes, bad stuff happens and I'm sure folks on here can tell stories but currently those horror stories are so statistically rare they can be reasonably treated as if they don't exist.

Umm, you are not even close to what the conversation was about.

One of the posters wanted to have Texas replace the property tax with some type flat tax. Talking about state, not federal.

And regarding the Feds, they sure as heck will file a lien on your home for nonpayment. And at some point that lien will bite you.

 

[benenglish]

Umm, you are not even close to what the conversation was about.

Really?

One of the posters wanted to have Texas replace the property tax with some type flat tax.

No, one of the posters wanted to have all taxes, especially Texas property taxes, replaced with a flat tax. The only flat tax that has ever been floated in any significant public discussion is a flat income tax. Texas doesn't have income tax. Therefore...

Talking about state, not federal.

...the conversation was about eliminating all taxes in favor of a single, flat income tax which would, by common definition and in the context of this thread, be a federal income tax.

And regarding the Feds, they sure as heck will file a lien on your home for nonpayment.

No, they don't. A federal tax lien is not filed "on your home." A federal tax lien attaches to every single thing you own, right down to the clothes on your back.

And at some point that lien will bite you.

Federal tax liens don't "bite" anybody. They simply perfect, under state law, the lien interest of the federal government in your property. Where homes are concerned, that means when you have a federal tax lien and you want to sell your home, the government gets to stand in line in front of you to receive sale proceeds.

You may call that "bite." I call it "helping tax scofflaws get right with the world."

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Deleted.

 

[F350-6]

Interesting idea but it'll never happen. Every little specialty tax out there has a constituency that will fight tooth and nail to keep it in place.
...

By consituency, I assume you mean lobbyist , and by fight, I assume you mean bribe politicians.

Show me a local school board that has ever lowered taxes in Texas, short of a district closing.

My local school board just lowered the tax rate. They also just passed a new 6 million dollar bond to expand the elementary school.

The county lowered the tax rate slightly too, but both of those had to do with the increased property values from the appraisal district. The tax rate went down. The tax dollars went up.

 

[benenglish]

By consituency, I assume you mean lobbyist

By constituency, I mean not only lobbyist but also a fairly sizable group of people who join an organization and collect money to pay said lobbyist. No matter what or how weird or how narrow a tax is, there are at least a few thousand people who strongly support it.

Taxes don't pop into existence in a vacuum.

And boy, oh boy, is it sad to contemplate the fact that the taxes that strangle us are of our own doing.

 

[oldag]

Really?

No, one of the posters wanted to have all taxes, especially Texas property taxes, replaced with a flat tax. The only flat tax that has ever been floated in any significant public discussion is a flat income tax. Texas doesn't have income tax. Therefore...

...the conversation was about eliminating all taxes in favor of a single, flat income tax which would, by common definition and in the context of this thread, be a federal income tax.
No, they don't. A federal tax lien is not filed "on your home." A federal tax lien attaches to every single thing you own, right down to the clothes on your back.

Federal tax liens don't "bite" anybody. They simply perfect, under state law, the lien interest of the federal government in your property. Where homes are concerned, that means when you have a federal tax lien and you want to sell your home, the government gets to stand in line in front of you to receive sale proceeds.

You may call that "bite." I call it "helping tax scofflaws get right with the world."

Compliments on the nitpicking.

We must not be reading the same posts.

 

[oldag]

Also, BE, anyone who wants the Feds to collect ALL taxes (flat income or otherwise) and then redistribute back to the states, school districts, towns....

What a marvelous idea. The Federal government is SO efficient in its bureaucracy. I am just positive every penny of state and local taxes collected by the Feds would make it back to the state and local entities.

 

[bullgator]

My votes don't count anyway. My no vote for bonds, tax increases are Almost always over-ridden in Houston and Harris County. Common sense does not seem to matter.