I see why Hollywood is afraid of firearms - Alec Baldwin kills set employee

[Axxe55]

IMO, everyone that handled that pistol, was in some way responsible for what happened.

I also think that it's possible too many people were relying upon others for the safe condition of the pistol, and how, what it was loaded with.

Quite possible, by the time the pistol was handed to Baldwin, he just assumed it was safe. Bad assumption on his part, but he's an actor, not a gun expert.

 

[Army 1911]

Bad assumption on his part, but he's an actor, not a gun expert.

No, he's an expert on everything, just ask him....no wait....he'll tell you before you ask.

 

[candcallen]

No, he's an expert on everything, just ask him....no wait....he'll tell you before you ask.

Well he knows what its like to shoot someone now.

 

[Aus_Schwaben]

Normally, I do not agree with Piers Morgan, however, this time he puts it so eloquently and logically I have to agree. Enjoy!

PIERS MORGAN: Alec Baldwin was EP of a chaotic and dangerous sh*t-show

It seemed barely believable that a star of Alec Baldwin's experience and stature could do something so lethally stupid as to fire a loaded gun towards co-workers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[majormadmax]

IMO, everyone that handled that pistol, was in some way responsible for what happened.

I also think that it's possible too many people were relying upon others for the safe condition of the pistol, and how, what it was loaded with.

Quite possible, by the time the pistol was handed to Baldwin, he just assumed it was safe. Bad assumption on his part, but he's an actor, not a gun expert.

Nope. Ultimately it's the person holding the firearm that is responsible. Same goes for everyone, which is why there is the cardinal rule of always checking a firearm when handed to you!

If Baldwin wasn't sure on how to safely handle it, he should have not accepted it. If he needed help in safely handling it, he should have asked before accepting it.

Despite what he thinks, he is no different than anyone else. If he got into a high performance car and ran over several people because he didn't know how to safely drive it, that would be on him just as this is.

He doesn't get a free pass on this...

 

[jrbfishn]

Nope. Ultimately it's the person holding the firearm that is responsible. Same goes for everyone, which is why there is the cardinal rule of always checking a firearm when handed to you!

If Baldwin wasn't sure on how to safely handle it, he should have not accepted it. If he needed help in safely handling it, he should have asked before accepting it.

Despite what he thinks, he is no different than anyone else. If he got into a high performance car and ran over several people because he didn't know how to safely drive it, that would be on him just as this is.

He doesn't get a free pass on this...

This right here.
Were people before him ignorant and careless? That difinitly would seem to the case. But once the gun was in his hand, he was the one responsible for using it safely.
Nobody else.

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[Renegade]

Nope. Ultimately it's the person holding the firearm that is responsible.

He doesn't get a free pass on this...

he is going to get a pass on this as an actor, just like the guy who shot Lee did

 

[ZX9RCAM]

He might not have checked the it prior to, but wasn't he supposed to point the gun at the camera, and pull the trigger?

 

[Chuckles]

I’ve read so many reports of what happened, the only consistency seems to be that he was handed a revolver that is capable of firing live rounds and was told that it was a “cold gun” which should have meant no rounds in it. Obviously he could have and should have checked it himself, and beyond that he as a producer has some responsibility over who was hired. One of the Assistant Directors was fired before for live ammo being in a cold gun, and the master of arms seems vastly under qualified.

 

[benenglish]

the master of arms seems vastly under qualified

She's definitely not her dad, the legendary Thell Reed.

 

[Axxe55]

Nope. Ultimately it's the person holding the firearm that is responsible. Same goes for everyone, which is why there is the cardinal rule of always checking a firearm when handed to you!

He doesn't get a free pass on this...

I don't totally disagree. I never said he should get a free pass. But the truth is, he's the actor, the celebrity, and most likely if anyone is held responsible, it probably won't be Alec Baldwin.

 

[Younggun]

All else aside, when something goes terribly wrong on a job site it’s usually the person in charge that holds intimate responsibility for the safety and welfare of those working (legally, in the real world you are responsible for your own safety and shouldn’t rely on anyone else to give a shit).


So I would expect Baldwin to be legally responsible as the producer who hired and oversaw everything that happened on the set. In that regard there is no question that he failed.


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[Chuckles]

She's definitely not her dad, the legendary Thell Reed.

It’s like you said before, reading up on the conditions on the set. I feel like I could have done a better job than her, was she just a “diversity hire”??

 

[toddnjoyce]

…So I would expect Baldwin to be legally responsible as the producer who hired and oversaw everything that happened on the set. In that regard there is no question that he failed.

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but has it been established the hiring/oversight was his responsibility?

The list of producers appears to inlcude:

Alec Baldwin
Matt DelPiano
Ryan Donnell Smith
Anjul Nigam
Ryan Winterstern
Nathan Klingher

 

[benenglish]

was she just a “diversity hire”??

I don't think so. She had trained under her dad for the profession and had successfully handled one movie before. So she should have been good to go. However, I haven't found anything that tells me exactly where she was located when the assistant director retrieved the revolver from the prop cart. He shouldn't have done that; that was her job. If she had done it, maybe she would have instinctively checked the revolver.

Of course, if she automatically did safety checks, there's the question of how the (partially or fully?) loaded revolver got on the prop cart to begin with.

I still have a lot more questions than answers. I could still make up multiple scenarios to account for the facts known thus far.

 

[TX oddball]

Baldwin, nevermind his pure scumbag traits as a human being, is 100% responsible for this death. As the actor who pulled the trigger on a real gun. As the producer in charge who oversees the production. As the owner of the production company making the film.

If any one of us, at somebody's house, were handed a gun, told it was safe and empty, and pulled the trigger killing a bystander, we would be in handcuffs and in jail immediately. No doubt.

Watch this video by Andrew Branca, a well known attorney specializing in self-defense law, speaking about the case. Using New Mexico law and statutes, he is convinced on pure legal grounds that Baldwin is easily guilty of involuntary manslaughter, a slam dunk case. Baldwin is in for a world of trouble, and he deserves everything coming down the path.

 

[Chuckles]

I don't think so. She had trained under her dad for the profession and had successfully handled one movie before. So she should have been good to go. However, I haven't found anything that tells me exactly where she was located when the assistant director retrieved the revolver from the prop cart. He shouldn't have done that; that was her job. If she had done it, maybe she would have instinctively checked the revolver.

Of course, if she automatically did safety checks, there's the question of how the (partially or fully?) loaded revolver got on the prop cart to begin with.

I still have a lot more questions than answers. I could still make up multiple scenarios to account for the facts known thus far.

What about the allegation that the same gun was being used for “offset target practice” with live ammo, and that live ammo and blanks were stored in the same location (why was there even live ammo on set?)?

At the end of the day, someone F’d up bad, and I just hope they nail his or her ass to the wall so these Hollyweird elites don’t get the impression they are above the law.

 

[pronstar]

Tons of info coming about the shitshow that happened behind the scenes. They’re in the article links, but to recap:

Gal publicly questioned her own ability as a qualified armorer.
Crew stated she would routinely wave firearms around.
Three ND’s had already happened on the set.
Union production crew walked-off over unsafe conditions.
Numerous crew social media posts, public before the shooting, noted unsafe conditions.
Non-union crew replaced union crew.


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[benenglish]

What about the allegation that the same gun was being used for “offset target practice” with live ammo,

I wouldn't mind that if the armorer were the person checking the guns in and out and doing all the safety checks that requires. Obviously, that didn't happen.

and that live ammo and blanks were stored in the same location (why was there even live ammo on set?)?

And that's just really stupid. At the beginning, I have to assume that the armorer would have not had live ammo on set. But with the nonexistent security over access to the firearms that may have been the case, the live ammo came in. That's the fault of many people: whoever brought it in, the armorer for either not noticing or not pitching a fit, the producers for not creating a sufficient safety culture so that people thought bringing in live ammo was something they could get away with, anyone who knew any of this was going on, etc. There's lots of blame to go around. Where it should specifically be apportioned will only be known after a long time, when investigations are done and court actions adjudicated.

Y'know, when I was a teenager I was at a Texas state shooting championship when the dog belonging to the range owner ran past the firing line toward the targets. I didn't hesitate to shout "Cease Fire! Cease fire and make the line safe!"

All firing instantly stopped on the first "cease". The old guys looked at me like I was crazy for a second, then everyone saw the dog and relaxed. A couple of them even thanked me later for not hesitating to do the right thing. No one was in any way irritated or put off by the kid stopping them in the middle of a firing string.

That sort of thing only happens when everyone on site is completely inculcated into a culture of "Safety First!"

It's pretty clear that the powers-that-be on the "Rust" set failed to create that culture and the result was injury and death.

 

[benenglish]

Gal publicly questioned her own ability as a qualified armorer.

Honest self-reflection is never a bad thing. But...

Crew stated she would routinely wave firearms around.

...becoming so comfortable around firearms that you lose sight of the fact they are deadly is never a good thing.

I've seen this before. For just one example, there are YT videos of shooting enthusiasts bemoaning the excess safety precautions taken at traditional shooting matches. When I see that kind of stuff, I cringe. When people adopt that attitude on a movie set, it appears the result can be much, much worse.

This whole situation is one giant "SMDH" moment, ain't it?