If A Gun You Sold Was Used In A Crime

[orbitup]

If you sold a gun to a guy and he used it in a crime how would you feel about it? Would you even want to know?

I'm curious because I've wondered about the guy that sold my brother the gun he used to kill my father. He had been delayed twice I think when trying to go through an FFL so he went to a gun show in San Antonio and bought from an individual. I don't blame the seller or the law. The guy that pulled the trigger did it.

I am curious if he did anything during the transaction that would have been a red flag to any of us.

 

[IXLR8]

What if you sold a car and someone died in it?

What if you sold a motorcycle and someone that could not handle the power killed themselves on it?

There are obviously hundreds of equally plausible ways someone can die. Why concentrate on only one way?

 

[Acera]

The person committed the crime, not the gun. The argument that the gun is responsible is one that liberals and anti-gunners have tried to use for years.

If I sold a car I knew was unsafe and did not pass that information on the buyer and the issue I knew about was the reason for the accident, I would feel bad about it................I guess, however I would never do that so I can't say for sure.

People have to be responsible for their own actions.

I don't like it when folks that try to put forth a debate where an inanimate object is the issue instead of a humans own choices.

 

[Moonpie]

Wouldn't think twice about it.

 

[Glockster69]

I don't blame the seller or the law. The guy that pulled the trigger did it.

C'mon guys, Nick is not blaming anyone OR thing but his brother for the crime.

He's asking you be introspective, then describe your thoughts.

 

[orbitup]

C'mon guys, Nick is not blaming anyone OR thing but his brother for the crime.

He's asking you be introspective, then describe your thoughts.

I thought I made that clear. I guess not.

Sent from.... RIGHT BEHIND YOU!

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I would hate to hear something like that happened, but, it would not be on me, long as one does their due diligence (of course people can & do lie all the time)
before closing the deal.

 

[Dawico]

I wouldn't think twice about it either if the sale was clean. I haven't sold a gun to somebody that threw up red flags.

If I had any doubts then the sale wouldn't happen. Beyond that I don't feel responsible and don't worry or even think about it.

That being said, it hasn't come back to me either.

 

[poolingmyignorance]

Your question, is emotionally motivated, which emotion is the primary motivation for most decisions liberally minded people make. That is why you received the responses you have. It's natural to "what if" things, and having a death of a dear loved one is really going to cause those emotions to surge.
I think if you were to have read a story about a stranger buying a gun, from a stranger, and using it to kill another stranger. You'd agree that it would be absurd for the original seller to feel any guilt over, somebody deciding using that particular tool to commit a crime. In short no, I would not feel guilty, but I have changed my mind and decided not to sell a gun to an individual because he seemed very thuggish when we actually met. Yes he was pissed, no I didn't care even though I got called the dreaded "r" word. Shouldn't have shown up with his pants below his ass.

 

[jrbfishn]

I refuse gun sales all the time. Sometimes, and some may not agree, everything is legal but something just don't feel right.
I have seen people come in and buy one to have it used in a crime within a year or so. That is on the buyer.
People will use anything handy to commit a crime, suicide or just be stupid.
Sorry about your father, and brother, but if he was going to do it he would have done it without the gun anyway.
Did he do or say something to tip off the seller? Did he sell it knowing something might happen but was to greedy to say no? Or just not care?

I wish I had the answer my friend. Sometimes things happen we have no control over, no rhyme or reason.
Please excuse the babbleing of an old man, my condolences. Wish I could help.


Sent by a idjit coffeeholic

 

[txinvestigator]

I rented a gun to a guy who subsequently shot himself. Intentionally

I felt bad for guy.

 

[karlac]

Not a sold weapon, but some forty years ago a pistol stolen during a burglary of my home was used to rape a neighbor.

Did feel for the neighbor, but, as with the OPs situation, it was the bad guy who did the crime.

 

[orbitup]

I never said a seller should feel guilty about it at all. Hell, I've sold a gun since then.

I wouldn't want this guy to feel guilty either.

Sent from.... RIGHT BEHIND YOU!

 

[jrbfishn]

Only if he knows something was wrong, then he should feel guilty. Otherwise no. Some people are good at covering their intentions, others not.
If you have reason to believe wrong will be done or something ain't right, and you intentionally give someone the tools to do wrong, then you are just as wrong.


Sent by a idjit coffeeholic

 

[benenglish]

If you sold a gun to a guy and he used it in a crime how would you feel about it? Would you even want to know?

He's asking you be introspective, then describe your thoughts.

I can do that. I'd want to know and I'd feel terrible. I wouldn't feel guilty; the guilt lies elsewhere. But I would feel some sorrow that I was part of the chain of events.

That's an emotional response and I don't mind admitting I have emotions. OTOH,...

Wouldn't think twice about it.

...rationally, this pretty well sums up how I'd deal with it. It'd think once, not twice, then go on about my life.

However, drifting off topic, this...

The person committed the crime, not the gun. The argument that the gun is responsible is one that liberals and anti-gunners have tried to use for years.

...does require a bit of context.

What Acera says is rational but it's not, in a legal sense, wholly accurate nor is it a recent, liberal tactic. It's a long-standing tradition in English common law that inanimate objects may be guilty or partially guilty of crimes. That's why in civil forfeiture cases, the object seized is sued by the government. The owner from whom the object was seized is not the entity sued.

It's an archaic holdover from ancient days and it needs to be done away with but it behooves us to recognize that blaming an object is a traditional, legal, accepted way of dealing with certain situations. The roots of the practice go back to the 11th century. While the law of the deodands was officially abolished by England in 1846, we're still stuck with remnants of it.

For a good read on the subject, try The Common Law by Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

Or if you prefer something you can click on:

Deodand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Asset forfeiture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Civil forfeiture in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Saving the best for last, a fascinating, sometimes infuriating analysis of the current state of affairs in the U.S. (and assuming you're willing to slog through all the footnotes and legalities), can be found in this article, one that was a huge help to me in understanding some of the thought processes that are bound up in the whole notion of blaming an inanimate object for anything: http://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1091&context=faculty_publications

I don't like it more than anyone else. It's a legal tradition borne of ignorance and superstition but, unfortunately, we're stuck with the final remnants of it. People who want to take our guns are still guided by it in their hearts, even if they don't understand the legal history.

If they did understand that blaming the guns and trying to confiscate them is, in 11th century terms, giving those objects over to God for judgement...I think some heads would explode.

 

[Renegade]

If you sold a gun to a guy and he used it in a crime how would you feel about it?

No feelings at all.

Would you even want to know?

Could not care less one way or the other, but I see no purpose to it.

 

[TheDan]

I'm curious because I've wondered about the guy that sold my brother the gun he used to kill my father.

Holy shit... That sounds like a crazy series of events and I'm sorry you've had to go through that.

To answer your question; I wouldn't put much thought into it. I have some experience with this as the ATF contacted me once about a gun I had sold, but I'm not sure what happened with it. I asked them if anyone was hurt, they said no, but not sure I can trust that if they were still in the middle of the investigation. I feel bad for people if they were hurt, but feel no responsibility for it. I have backed out of sales before when someone felt sketchy, but that's the end of my responsibility.

 

[Acera]

What Acera says is rational but it's not, in a legal sense, wholly accurate nor is it a recent, liberal tactic. It's a long-standing tradition in English common law that inanimate objects may be guilty or partially guilty of crimes. That's why in civil forfeiture cases, the object seized is sued by the government. The owner from whom the object was seized is not the entity sued.

It's an archaic holdover from ancient days and it needs to be done away with but it behooves us to recognize that blaming an object is a traditional, legal, accepted way of dealing with certain situations. The roots of the practice go back to the 11th century. While the law of the deodands was officially abolished by England in 1846, we're still stuck with remnants of it.

Not sure the entirety of the legal aspect of what you are discussing, but since the people making the laws are clueless a lot of the time I think it applies. So as a tactic of the left, it happens. They (lawmakers) don't understand that the object does or how it relates to crime, but they want to ban it. Remember that thing that goes up?????

 

[F350-6]

If I found out about it, I'm sure I would ask myself a dozen different times if I overlooked any hint or sign of what was to come.

You can't control someone else's actions, but you also shouldn't enable someone you suspect is up to no good. Is there something I could have done would be a common thought I would think.

If it was going to happen, it was going to happen though. Even if he went to the local hardware store and bought a hammer to do it.

 

[orbitup]

If I found out about it, I'm sure I would ask myself a dozen different times if I overlooked any hint or sign of what was to come.

You can't control someone else's actions, but you also shouldn't enable someone you suspect is up to no good. Is there something I could have done would be a common thought I would think.

If it was going to happen, it was going to happen though. Even if he went to the local hardware store and bought a hammer to do it.

I couldn't agree more.