If Open Carry ever comes to Texas, I hope everyone has.........

[M. Sage]

So post your age. I'm 34, 35 in a couple months.

The older I get, the less inclined I am to just "go along to get along."

 

[M. Sage]

Congrats on another sly attempt at insult, by the way. "Oh, you dumb kids..."

I know what you're really saying.

 

[Bithabus]

I don't think a cop is being a jerk for wanting to verify someone is who they say they are

Not the job of the Police to verify people are who they say they are, unless they are investigating a crime.

 

[Texan2]

Not the job of the Police to verify people are who they say they are, unless they are investigating a crime.

Not always the case.

 

[just jk]

Congrats on another sly attempt at insult, by the way. "Oh, you dumb kids..."

I know what you're really saying.

umm, no.....i'm not.....you are really thin skinned and overly sensitive

i'm 47

it's a fact that people see things differently at different ages.....its just life, it doesnt mean you're dumb or whatever, just that you see life differently as you grow older

has nothing to do with intellect

 

[Texan2]

I think it boils down to picking your battles. Some things are worth fighting over, some are not. If I show my ID and in doing so I further my cause and get local LE on my side for future encounters, I feel that I have accomplished much more than those that would rather fight over ANYTHING that the law doesnt REQUIRE them to do.

We are arguing in circles now. If you think that having beligerant confrontations with LE helps the 2A or OC movement knock yourself out.

I see people who cant see the forest for the trees.

 

[just jk]

I think it boils down to picking your battles. Some things are worth fighting over, some are not. If I show my ID and in doing so I further my cause and get local LE on my side for future encounters, I feel that I have accomplished much more than those that would rather fight over ANYTHING that the law doesnt REQUIRE them to do.

We are arguing in circles now. If you think that having beligerant confrontations with LE helps the 2A or OC movement knock yourself out.

I see people who cant see the forest for the trees.

right, there were battles i would fight at 25 and 30 that i wouldnt today.....priorities and life change those things

 

[Tejano Scott]

I see both sides of this argument. The irony is if more OC people showed their IDs on request, LEOs would probably eventually stop performing ID checks after they begin to see the situation as routine/mundane. The primary reason most of these cops in these videos(IMO) seem to be asking for ID is because OC isn't something they see every day.

I guess the same could be said of the whole "show me your ID" thing... If more people refused, maybe LEOs would eventually stop asking.

I don't think there is any reason to get as heated as some people are in this thread.

 

[just jk]

heated? who's heated?

 

[TexasRedneck]

Yep....that's something at the back of my mind, as well. Because there's things today that REALLY light my fuse that I didn't think twice about when I was younger - and things that don't phase me today that used to tick me off.

I honestly think age is a big factor here - as well as "life experiences". So, yeah - knowing someone's age on something like this does provide an interesting data point. It's not "damn kids" - it's "okay - I can see where that'd set him off", because we've BTDT. Can't really explain it, and honestly it'd do as much good as trying to explain it to me back in "my day".

It's like trying to get me to travel into Mexico for ANY reason. Many of my contemporaries do so routinely - even on $20k-plus Harley's - and just can't understand why I so vehemently refuse to do. I traveled in Mexico for almost 20 years and never really worried about it, but I started seeing changes that I didn't like back in the mid-90's and started curtailing such trips, requiring more and more "safe guards" from customers. In the late 90's I saw that even THOSE weren't enough, and have since refused ALL trips into Mexico for ANY reason.

So.....don't take it as an insult when age is brought up, because our views/ideas/ideals change and evolve as we age, and that's a good thing - because that mix is what will keep us more "in line" as we share our ideas and reasonings.

 

[just jk]

Yep....that's something at the back of my mind, as well. Because there's things today that REALLY light my fuse that I didn't think twice about when I was younger - and things that don't phase me today that used to tick me off.

I honestly think age is a big factor here - as well as "life experiences". So, yeah - knowing someone's age on something like this does provide an interesting data point. It's not "damn kids" - it's "okay - I can see where that'd set him off", because we've BTDT. Can't really explain it, and honestly it'd do as much good as trying to explain it to me back in "my day".

It's like trying to get me to travel into Mexico for ANY reason. Many of my contemporaries do so routinely - even on $20k-plus Harley's - and just can't understand why I so vehemently refuse to do. I traveled in Mexico for almost 20 years and never really worried about it, but I started seeing changes that I didn't like back in the mid-90's and started curtailing such trips, requiring more and more "safe guards" from customers. In the late 90's I saw that even THOSE weren't enough, and have since refused ALL trips into Mexico for ANY reason.

So.....don't take it as an insult when age is brought up, because our views/ideas/ideals change and evolve as we age, and that's a good thing - because that mix is what will keep us more "in line" as we share our ideas and reasonings.

well said

 

[Fisherman777]

Just because you have a right doesn't mean you have to exercise it at every possible opportunity. And don't give me the whole if you don't exercise it you lose it speech. You probably haven't exercised your right to an attorney lately either, but I don't think we are in jeopardy of losing it any time soon.

The LEOs were nice. Be nice. They ask for ID...I know you don't have to...but why not be nice and give it to them? If I was open carrying for a legitimate reason, I'd want to reassure both the police and public that my actions were legal and be on my way as quickly as possible. I'd only make a big deal out of it and play games if I wanted to make a big deal out of it and do some grandstanding and maybe hope the situation escalates and I can get some attention. (Or maybe if the LEO's had been assholes when they approached me, but that wasn't the case here.)

I still think winning the hearts and minds of our opponents is not best achieved by scaring them or being an ass to the people who may give their life trying to save yours...even though you have the right to do so. JMO

Excellent post. So I'm walking down the street, open carrying, people can see it and all of a sudden I start acting like a young punk or a jerk. If I'm out there to educate, that behavior negates most of the reason I'm open carrying in the first place. Just show the id and have a pleasant conversation with the cop. If you're not a jerk to him, he'll be much more open to being educated (if he's mistaken about anything) about gun laws and our rights. Right now, public perception is a big part of the battle. You're not doing us any service by looking and acting like a punk kid.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

...

"Good afternoon officers, I see you are looking at the gun I have on my hip, which I know is not something that is often seen in this state/area. I and my friend are trying to make a statement by exercising our legal right to openly carry in public. I have no doubt it will draw attention, but I want to reassure you that we are in no way a danger to anyone, nor to we mean to alarm anyone. We simply wish to educate folks that this is their constitutional right and feel that the easiest way to do so is to exercise that right. If someone has called you here based our our actions we apologize but, as you can see we have committed no offense. Like you, we support the legal use of firearms and appreciate the position that these situations sometimes put you, as officers, in. It is our hope that someday when people begin to grow accustomed to their rights, the number of people that feel they need to call the police simply because someone is carrying a gun, will decrease"

...

Just a quick pause from the bickering, but that should be a sticky. If we ever get OC I will print that out and stick it in my wallet. Hell, I might just hand it to an officer in that situation and tell them I don't want to screw up what I'm trying to say.

 

[M. Sage]

Let me kill a myth real fast.

You are not a law-abiding citizen, there is no such thing. You do have something to hide. I know, you guys don't believe me, but if you look at the sheer number of idiotic things that are illegal and shouldn't be...

One small example: anybody that buys stuff online from out of state is supposed to pay use tax (which is the same as sales tax) to Texas. If you buy something in a county or city with a lower sales tax than where you live, you're supposed to pay the difference in use tax, but nobody does. You criminals, you (and me and him and her...).

I guarantee that if I had the chance to dissect your life and spend some time perusing laws, I'd find quite a few and most of us have unwittingly committed felonies at some point.

And I'll ignore traffic law, which is more a suggestion than anything since it's downright impossible to follow 100% of the time...

"Law abiding citizen?" Complete fiction.

 

[just jk]

wow - there's not much gray in your life is there?

 

[InHouston]

I applaud what he did. However, when you put yourself in a position to start lecturing police officers about the law, you might as well have a seat, because they are going to sit there and dig whatever they can from you. I'm not taking the officer's side on this at all. But your approach with them will determine how you're treated and/or detained. In their eyes, he's hiding something, and in his eyes he was defending his rights. All he had to do was to be friendly, assure the police he was simply enjoying his right to open carry, and so what if they wanted his ID ... show it and be on your way. The more defensive you are with the police, the more inclined they are to believe you're hiding something they need to know. The police are caught in the middle with citizens worried about someone carrying a gun on their hip. Do the citizens a favor and demonstrate to them that you're a law-abiding citizen, talk to the police and help to promote the normalcy of open carry, rather than arguing with them. That's what thugs do all day long, and they're going to think you're another thug trying to pull something over on them. Now ... if a police officer is harassing you because of open carry when it's legal, then shutup, exercise your rights, and let the chips fall where they will. If you're doing nothing wrong with open carry, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Texan2]

I can appreciate Sage's POV. I certainly understand where he is coming from.

For me....I choose to analyze each encounter on it merits and decide how to proceed from there.

It is rarely wise to speak in absolutes. It has been my experience that picking a fight, or purposely looking for a confrontation to get your point across to others who don't apprceiate it is rarely successful.

 

[majormadmax]

Honestly, while I am less tolerant of many things at my age (I’m 48, by the way, but you’d never know that by looking at or talking to me), I am also more tolerant of many others. In my youth, I would have automatically complied with a police officer’s request because that was how my father taught me (he was also military). These days I am inclined to do so because I have had a “glimpse” into their world and understand the gamut of situations they have to deal with on a daily basis. Where I may not be legally bound to comply with their request for ID, I will do so willingly as I see it as a quick and easy way to satisfy their need to establish who I am and what I may be doing. I also consider it to be reasonable. The same goes for some basic questions they may have of me. If/when I feel they have crossed a boundary I am not comfortable with, I will stop; but I don’t see the need or reason for doing so at the offset simply because of their roles in society.

Does this compliance have any impact on my rights or those of others? I don’t see so, but then again I’ve spent over half of my life in the military where individuals’ rights are considerably constrained. But the main reason is that I’d rather work with the police in resolving these issues than against them. In the end that serves everyone’s interests much better and we all walk away a little smarter because of it.

I know people who are perpetually fighting authority and I have yet to see any of them truly succeed. I understand there are certain battles that must be waged, but as people have stated you do have to pick your battles. I don’t see the young man in the video as doing that, nor do I see him achieving any major objectives using those methods. There are several better approaches he could have taken that would have served the same end state, one where optimally both he and the officers involved would leave the encounter a little more educated and a little less pissed off…

 

[TheDan]

if people need this kind of action to feel empowered (which many do) - then it is what it is

If police officers need to ID everyone they interact with to feel empowered (which many do) - then it is what it is

I think it boils down to picking your battles.

Agreed... While I think trying to decrease law enforcement's desire to ID everyone to "make sure they aren't doing anything illegal" (I finally watched the video) is a worthy battle to fight, I don't think it's a good idea to fight it while also trying to desensitize people to open carry. You should really focus on being as cordial and non-confrontational as possible. One battle at a time...

If i was in that situation, I'd probably ask the cop with a smile "Why you fishing, man?" as I hand him my ID.

 

[Texan2]

If i was in that situation, I'd probably ask the cop with a smile "Why you fishing, man?" as I hand him my ID.

And he would say, "You see all these people watching? I am showing them that I am giving them their money's worth. Somebody (or several somebodies) called because you were carrying that gun. Once they see us chat and see that I am OK with you, they will be OK with you. Anyway, you are to small to be a keeper. You guys take it easy"