If you are online Turn on CNBC

[AusTex]

There is a special right now "Remington Underfire:A CNBC investigation" about how Remington 700's are going off without people touching the trigger! they have confirmed this from police departments and the ARMY sniper school. They show footage of a police officer touching the bolt and the gun FIRES.. another one switches from fire to safe and the gun fires. This malfunction has caused many deaths and many accidents.

Im not sure if this is old news or not but we all need to spread the word on this fast!

Try and watch this special but if you miss it do some research.

edit* and if you own a rem700 that does not have the xmark trigger system(2007) I would take the time to test your rifle and make sure this will not happen. Also make sure the trigger system is clean and free of debris. To me the video where the cop touches the bolt and the gun fires is just the most serious. A lot of people keep their guns in safe directions when there finger is on the trigger or about to be fired however when caring the gun back from the deer blind, loading into the truck, so on and so forth that muzzle discipline sometimes disappears.

jeremy

 

[Texas1911]

They have a few hundred cases out of 5 million guns ... with the extent that 700s are modified and used hard for decades, it makes you wonder just how many of those hundred fall into either category.

I'm not buying much into this "report".

 

[M. Sage]

They have a few hundred cases out of 5 million guns ... with the extent that 700s are modified and used hard for decades, it makes you wonder just how many of those hundred fall into either category.

I'm not buying much into this "report".

This. It's a known issue on rifles with bad trigger jobs, because it decreases the amount of contact the sear has with the striker. Take a little too much off, and the rifle fires either when you close the bolt or when the bolt is jiggled just right. Same goes for worn trigger parts.

It serves as a better reminder to follow the four rules of gun safety. Not a single one of those fatalities or injuries had to happen, even if there was a defective rifle involved. Not a single one of them should have happened, even with the most unsafe rifles you can find.

BTW, the USMC has been fielding the Remington 700 since 1966, the Army since 1983. Do you think they might have noticed if there was an issue?

 

[AusTex]

How could you not? The have video footage of them repeating the discharge. They have a stack of complaints to the roof. Literally they have over 1,000 complaints of discharges without touching the trigger(and that is just people that took the time to write the company). They say EDIT*1% of the guns could be faulty 5 million were sold last year that is 50,000 guns. I wouldn't buy into this much either if they didn't show the footage of it happening and have all the documents to back up their claims and they just interviewed the individual that designed the trigger in the 40's and he admits it is unsafe. I mean if you happen to have 1 faulty gun and it got you injured or one of your friends or family members killed you would probably be on the other side of the argument.

Also they have already settled many lawsuits one for $20 million.. wouldn't it be cheaper to prevent this from happening all together? It just seems very apparent that Remington is not taking responsibility on this to me.

I understand that using a firearm is putting your life and those around you in jeopardy but if I ever picked up a gun and could shoot it on safety I would be freaking outraged. Just as if I got a new car and it would roll while in PARK I would feel the same way. It can get people killed and it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to prevent this and if they don't want to prevent it they need to NOT make claims that the safety prevents the gun from firing.

 

[AusTex]

Well there are a shit ton of claims saying they never modified anything on the gun and most of deaths that occurred were on peoples hunting rifles.

I'm confused did you guys not just watch the special? This info came out of court documents seized from REMINGTON not just made up by some Joe smoe. The documents are there, the memos are there, stating they acknowledged the problem but did not want to fix it because of COST.

 

[Clockwork]

The solution to the Remington 700 problem: buy Mossberg.

 

[West Texas]

Well there are a shit ton of claims saying they never modified anything on the gun and most of deaths that occurred were on peoples hunting rifles.

I'm confused did you guys not just watch the special? This info came out of court documents seized from REMINGTON not just made up by some Joe smoe. The documents are there, the memos are there, stating they acknowledged the problem but did not want to fix it because of COST.

Actually I have seen simular reports in the past, and it's as much smoke as it is reality. In a very high precentage of the cases the rifle was either old, worn and poorly maintained or has been modified poorly. They've not been able to take a rifle out of a new box and get thes results they are stating. It's just not happening that way.

ANY rifle that has not been taken care of can do some wild things...

The fact that this report was done by a VERY BIG ANTI-BUSINESS liberal organization that is also a VERY BIG ANTI-GUN organization might have had a little to do with this story as well...

 

[Bushmaster]

Whatever happened to word of mouth destroying a company? If this rifle was so bad, why didn't people complain amongst themselves on forums like this until there was a general consensus that that model of Remington sucks? We all know at this point that complaining to TPTB about ANY thing is a complete and utter waste of time. We have to take care of business ourselves. Quit buying and using them, and deaths will go down, duh. And if you quit buying them, they will stop making them.

 

[matefrio]

Ya, and the gas peddle of some Toyota cars gets stuck as well. Audi got a fair shake on 60 min ..... /sarcasm

The Best Of TTAC: The Audi 5000 Intended Unintended Acceleration Debacle | The Truth About Cars

 

[West Texas]

It's like the Grayco, the manufacturer of baby beds and car seats and highchairs last week issued a recall on SEVERAL MILLION beds because there had been LESS THAN 10 INJURIES/DEATHS and of THOSE, 75% were because the parents put the bed together wrong...or they weren't using the strap properly in the car seat...

At what point did we quit taking responsibilty for our own actions? Hell, ACCIDENTS happen, that doesn't mean the PRODUCT was bad, it means SOMEONE had a BRAIN FART!

Like putting a fresh cup of coffee between your legs and driving off, then bitching because it f'ing spilled and you got burned....STUPID.

I'm going to take my BP meds now...

 

[Texas1911]

I've shot thousands of rounds out of a hundred or more 700s for a decade and have never had a single mishap with a Remington 700, modified, or otherwise.

I do know how to modify a 700 to slam fire, or fire when you bump the bolt. That is exactly why the Savage has the blade safety on their new models with the light triggers.

I also know exactly how the public treats their guns, the lack of knowledge, and the unsafe manner in which they handle guns. The "it's not loaded" or "my finger was not on the trigger" I've heard many a time, and they were outright lying. Flagging your kid with a loaded bolt rifle should give you some sort of indication as to the caliber of individual we are dealing with here.

 

[matefrio]

Sad thing is, Joe Public will only hear "Rifles are unsafe". They can't tell a Remington from a Savage.

 

[M. Sage]

How could you not? The have video footage of them repeating the discharge. They have a stack of complaints to the roof. Literally they have over 1,000 complaints of discharges without touching the trigger(and that is just people that took the time to write the company). They say EDIT*1% of the guns could be faulty 5 million were sold last year that is 50,000 guns. I wouldn't buy into this much either if they didn't show the footage of it happening and have all the documents to back up their claims and they just interviewed the individual that designed the trigger in the 40's and he admits it is unsafe. I mean if you happen to have 1 faulty gun and it got you injured or one of your friends or family members killed you would probably be on the other side of the argument.

Which video footage? The footage of the SWAT sharpshooters jiggling the bolt and causing the rifle to discharge? I'd bet money that was a modified trigger, it fits the profile too well. Many of the Remington settlements involved rifles that would not duplicate the claimed problem. Companies are in the habit of settling to make things go away. Lawyers and publicity are expensive, the latter is why most settlements contain a gag. You can't talk about the settlement, you can't go publicizing or talking about what happened.

If I had a faulty gun that injured me or someone else, it had damn well better be because it exploded and we were wounded by fragments. There is zero excuse for a bullet leaving the barrel and finding a person, because that means you pointed it at someone. Zero tolerance there. Know a safe direction or don't pick the gun up.

Also they have already settled many lawsuits one for $20 million.. wouldn't it be cheaper to prevent this from happening all together? It just seems very apparent that Remington is not taking responsibility on this to me.

I understand that using a firearm is putting your life and those around you in jeopardy but if I ever picked up a gun and could shoot it on safety I would be freaking outraged. Just as if I got a new car and it would roll while in PARK I would feel the same way. It can get people killed and it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to prevent this and if they don't want to prevent it they need to NOT make claims that the safety prevents the gun from firing.

Again, a lot of settlements are just to end things quickly and cheaply. Lawyers are the only winners in a lawsuit, especially one that's long and drawn out.

If your gun fires on safe, or your car rolls while in park it COULD be the manufacturer's fault if it's a defect, or if the item is still in the warranty period. Otherwise it's your problem because it's a maintenance issue. I have seen cars that would roll in park because of worn parts. Owner's issue, not factory. Where do you think that shift interlocks on automatic transmissions come from? Morons not putting their cars all the way in park, and when it rolls away and hit someone/something screaming that it was the evil electronic transmission going all Maximum Overdrive on them. Meanwhile, anybody who isn't completely ignorant of electronically controlled transmissions is laughing at the lame and totally implausible excuse of someone who screwed up.

... But it was cheaper and easier for the automakers to put a stupid solenoid into the shifter so that you have to push the brake to get your car out of park (and in some cases neutral, too). It shut the mouths of the morons who couldn't understand that the car had to be all the way in park not to roll away, and made the ignorant who believed such a thing was possible feel safer.

Ya, and the gas peddle of some Toyota cars gets stuck as well. Audi got a fair shake on 60 min ..... /sarcasm

The Best Of TTAC: The Audi 5000 Intended Unintended Acceleration Debacle | The Truth About Cars

Don't forget the Chevrolet trucks that were supposed to explode.
...and Alar use on apples. And DDT. And nuclear power plants... It's not hard to dredge up a lifetime of FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) brought to us by the nightly "news".

Honestly, you want to get pissed off about dangerously defective products? You might want to start with news shows. They have zero accountability. After all, who's going to do an investigative report about it!?

I've shot thousands of rounds out of a hundred or more 700s for a decade and have never had a single mishap with a Remington 700, modified, or otherwise.

I do know how to modify a 700 to slam fire, or fire when you bump the bolt. That is exactly why the Savage has the blade safety on their new models with the light triggers.

I also know exactly how the public treats their guns, the lack of knowledge, and the unsafe manner in which they handle guns. The "it's not loaded" or "my finger was not on the trigger" I've heard many a time, and they were outright lying. Flagging your kid with a loaded bolt rifle should give you some sort of indication as to the caliber of individual we are dealing with here.

Exactly. Rule #2 was not followed in any of these instances, or nobody would have been hurt beyond some hearing damage.

By the way, Remington redesigned the 700 trigger back in the '80s I think, and definitely did (another?) redesign around 1997. Why wait 13 years for such an important piece of journalism?

Oh yeah.. agenda.

 

[RemingtonArms]

See Remington's response

See Remington's response to CNBC at Remington Model 700™.

 

[dobarker]

Hooray for Remington.
Don't believe in cannon fodder from reporters when facts stand against them.

I own 5 700's from late a late 60's to a new varmint with an x-mark pro trigger, never have any of them gone off in a direction that I wasn't pointing it in.

 

[M. Sage]

Wow. Wonder if there's a human attached to that Remington post. Not too happy with them sending bots around to forums, but they're at least working pretty hard to protect themselves. Too many companies roll over in the face of media attacks like this.

 

[matefrio]

I'm glad they are defending themselves. Remington part of the "Freedom Group" of Cerberus have a huge market. Glad they still care about their brand\reputation enough to fight it.

"Freedom Group" of companies.

• Remington Arms
• Bushmaster Firearms International
• DPMS Panther Arms
• Marlin
• H & R Firearms
• NEF
• Dakota Arms
• LC Smith
• Parker
• AAC
• Barnes Bullets
• EOTAC
• INTC

 

[Texasjack]

I rarely believe anything I see in the media. They don't exist to broadcast facts; they exist to sell ad time.

On the other hand, I had a Rem. 700 BDL that went off when I moved the safety. First time, I thought it must have been my fault (i.e., that I must have touched the trigger). Second time, it was clearly the gun. However, instead of blaming Remington, I took it to a reputable gunsmith. He found a small burr that had been missed in machining, removed it, and the gun functioned just fine after that.

I know others that have owned 700's over the years and I don't recall any complaining about any serious problems.

 

[M. Sage]

How old was that rifle? Sounds like you might have had one that was genuinely defective.

Good on ya for observing the four rules!

 

[AusTex]

I agree good for obeying the rules but the truth is a high powered rifle has nothing safe about it. Ricochets kill people, falling bullets kill people. The defect is real or is texasjack just another idiot as many people said above that messed with his trigger and threw his gun down in the mud and never cleaned it? The proof is there and about 6 of yall just ripped me for pointing it out. Called it left wing anti-gun agenda when the facts are there. I really was scratching my head. The man that invented the trigger system is on tape saying "it needs to be replaced and is unsafe" and that the execs at Remington are acting with "stupidity". Yet multiple of you just told me about how your personal experiences with your rem700 or 10 means that this malfunction is a rumor or not worth looking into. Just b/c your rem700 never misfired has nothing to do with the 1% or the 20,000 of them that could or have.

Texasjack if your gun would have brushed up against the shooting bench and discharged a high velocity rifle round into the ground fragmenting and possibly shattering your foot and potentially causing a amputation would you still take the gun to the gun smith and not blame Remington because you were pointing the gun in a safe direction? These are the types of theoritical accidnets that happen with guns! Freak accidents occur so why not mitigate this risk as much as possible?

I want you guys to step back and realize I am talking about safety that is all! Not anti-gun not anti-Remington but the fact that these are not squirt guns they are tools originally designed to kill and they should only be able to fire if the trigger is pulled PERIOD! You pay a pretty penny for a 700, they come from a company that is one of the largest in the world with a huge R&D budget and the man power, material, and money to put out products that should function 100% and if they don't they should be recalled! We are talking bolt guns guys not complex designed semi-auto rifles. The fact you guys are sitting here telling me that this sub par quality is ok or that 20k defective rifles is not a big deal is really just mind blowing to me. I see people rip apart products on these forums all the time about quality, craftsmanship, and company integrity. Yet why not demand it from Remington?

For you all that said this trigger problem was not real I don't know how else to say it but you are wrong and for you guys to think that as long as you follow the 10 Remington rules of shooting no one will ever get hurt you are also wrong. If you cannot trust your equipment what can you trust? And what I was pointing out is at a bare min. spread the word on this to EVERYONE because if it saves just one life it is worth it. I promise you from now on when I am in deer camp I am telling all my friends with rem700s of any age about this problem and pushing muzzle discipline even more. And to be honest I will be watching all of them with their guns and standing clear because I am not going to wind up dead because of a faulty trigger mechanism and an idiot pointing his gun at me(lots of my buds shoot rem700). Being an idiot, not properly cleaning your gun, or messing with a trigger does not mean someone else deserves to die. Which is really what I was trying to express it is NOT the idiot behind the gun dying it is the kid standing in front of him that might not know any better or you 50 yards away at a shooting bench! if this trigger problem never existed there is some pretty damning evidence that some of these people would be alive and the fact you guys are fighting that tooth and nail again is surprising to me.

So for Remington to deny this, make youtube videos, A website(that is basically a big advertisement), and a Nra video where they just call all these people(American gun owners like us) liars, irresponsible gun owners who tamper with triggers, and don't know how to maintain anything is wrong in my opinion. They are putting BLAME instead of accepting ANY responsibility. And furthermore they are doing that to their clients! The people that went out and purchased their guns with hard earned money like Texasjack for example!

So if the designer of the gun, top gun smiths, pro shooters, and the 1000 people just like Texasjack don't convince you that this is a real problem than nothing will. Again I want you to think about the reality that almost no direction is 100% safe to hold a gun people can get hurt regardless so why not rely on a combination of safety mechanisms and techniques to mitigate this risk?

I love Remington 700's I have had a few including their pss model. I really enjoyed it for years and sold it to a friend. I have nothing against Remington as a company and they have sure done a lot for this country and gun lovers like us over the years. However I also believe in corporate responsibility as much as I believe in personal responsibility.