Improper 51%, what are our legal options?

[Rthib]

Last year and looks like they will try again, Lewisville Western Days is claiming that the entire venue is 51%.
Ignoring the fact that they are not 51% and you can claim an entire fenced area,

the type of permit they have for the event is not covered under 51% law.

So what legal actions can we take before the event to prevent them from posted and preventing (they have police and metal detectors.)

Any good local lawyers or organization who could help fight?

 

[Recoil45]

Is it government property? On the Texas attorney general website you can report illegal signage on government property.


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[Rthib]

Yes, but unfortunatly you can only report 30.06/30.07. This is a 51%. They were told they could not put up 30.06 a while back so someone there found this loophole.

 

[easy rider]

Any businesses looking to keep people from carrying isn't looking for my business.

 

[Bozz10mm]

Call the TABC.

 

[txinvestigator]

Last year and looks like they will try again, Lewisville Western Days is claiming that the entire venue is 51%.
Ignoring the fact that they are not 51% and you can claim an entire fenced area,

the type of permit they have for the event is not covered under 51% law.

So what legal actions can we take before the event to prevent them from posted and preventing (they have police and metal detectors.)

Any good local lawyers or organization who could help fight?

Why do you say they are not 51%. Under what business is the TABC license?

 

[Rthib]

Why do you say they are not 51%. Under what business is the TABC license?

It is Western Days, usual city event with some wine and bear sales but lots of kids and lots and lots of food.

But regardless, the temporary permit for an event is not subject to the 51% law for carry. Permit is not one of the listed chapters.

Normally I would do my usual no guns = no money, but this is a city which is trying to get around the laws and fines for 30.06 by claiming to be covered by 51%.

 

[easy rider]

It is Western Days, usual city event with some wine and bear sales but lots of kids and lots and lots of food.

But regardless, the temporary permit for an event is not subject to the 51% law for carry. Permit is not one of the listed chapters.

Normally I would do my usual no guns = no money, but this is a city which is trying to get around the laws and fines for 30.06 by claiming to be covered by 51%.

That's because it has become a liberal (Oh my god people are carrying guns) bastion.

 

[txinvestigator]

But regardless, the temporary permit for an event is not subject to the 51% law for carry. Permit is not one of the listed chapters.

What law says a temporary permit does not qualify as 51%?

 

[Rthib]

What law says a temporary permit does not qualify as 51%?

It part of the code, only permits or license for certain Chapters are covered by 51%, here is the part of 46.035

(b)
[FONT=&amp](1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter [/FONT]25[FONT=&amp], [/FONT]28[FONT=&amp], [/FONT]32[FONT=&amp], [/FONT]69[FONT=&amp], or [/FONT]74[FONT=&amp], Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section [/FONT]104.06[FONT=&amp], Alcoholic Beverage Code;[/FONT]


The Temporary Permits are Chapter 27 (or 30)

 

[Bithabus]

If they have the wrong signage call the local TABC office

 

[txinvestigator]

It part of the code, only permits or license for certain Chapters are covered by 51%, here is the part of 46.035

(b)
[FONT=&](1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter [/FONT]25[FONT=&], [/FONT]28[FONT=&], [/FONT]32[FONT=&], [/FONT]69[FONT=&], or [/FONT]74[FONT=&], Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section [/FONT]104.06[FONT=&], Alcoholic Beverage Code;[/FONT]


The Temporary Permits are Chapter 27 (or 30)

I didn't know where the temp permits were. Thanks for the info.

 

[locke_n_load]

You mentioned a fence. Is this event outside? If so, if you read the relevant text by Rthib, it says premises, not property, so you would only be barred from carry inside of any buildings, not outside. But I would probably conceal carry as opposed to open carry, and if they are wanding people to get into the fenced in area, I wouldn't chance it (meaning I wouldn't go at all, but that's me).

 

[locke_n_load]

It part of the code, only permits or license for certain Chapters are covered by 51%, here is the part of 46.035

(b)
[FONT=&amp](1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter [/FONT]25[FONT=&amp], [/FONT]28[FONT=&amp], [/FONT]32[FONT=&amp], [/FONT]69[FONT=&amp], or [/FONT]74[FONT=&amp], Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section [/FONT]104.06[FONT=&amp], Alcoholic Beverage Code;[/FONT]


The Temporary Permits are Chapter 27 (or 30)

So if I'm reading this right, temporary events with 51% signs have no meaning to a person carrying their handgun under authority of their LTC???

 

[Rthib]

So if I'm reading this right, temporary events with 51% signs have no meaning to a person carrying their handgun under authority of their LTC???

That is correct.


To the previous comment, they have metal detectors and city police at entrance enforcing the 51% sign, so ignoring is not an option. Normally I would just skip, but this is a city violating the law, so looking for best avenue to fight.
For 30.06, we have attorney general but for improper posting and enforcement of 51%, not sure what is best method since there is no clear penalties for posting wrong sign.


Plan on contacting TABC but seeing if anyone has any other ideas legal or if knows anyone in Denton county who wants to help the legal fight and knows what they are doing.

 

[oohrah]

You said there was beer sales. If they have hired a vendor to sell beer, and that vendor's license says TABC: RED, then the vendor is the one posting the 51%, and the 51% is valid wherever anybody can carry their beer at the event. So, LTC is prohibited. This is a long standing complaint, and can only be changed by legislation. Another prime example of this is Bass Concert Hall in Ft. Worth, where a 51% vendor in the lobby sells beer & wine and puts the whole place off limits, even though Bass is owned by the city.

Write your legislator.

 

[locke_n_load]

You said there was beer sales. If they have hired a vendor to sell beer, and that vendor's license says TABC: RED, then the vendor is the one posting the 51%, and the 51% is valid wherever anybody can carry their beer at the event. So, LTC is prohibited. This is a long standing complaint, and can only be changed by legislation. Another prime example of this is Bass Concert Hall in Ft. Worth, where a 51% vendor in the lobby sells beer & wine and puts the whole place off limits, even though Bass is owned by the city.

Write your legislator.

Except this sounds like an outdoor event, and 51% only applies to premises (inside or part of a building).

 

[txinvestigator]

You said there was beer sales. If they have hired a vendor to sell beer, and that vendor's license says TABC: RED, then the vendor is the one posting the 51%, and the 51% is valid wherever anybody can carry their beer at the event. So, LTC is prohibited. This is a long standing complaint, and can only be changed by legislation. Another prime example of this is Bass Concert Hall in Ft. Worth, where a 51% vendor in the lobby sells beer & wine and puts the whole place off limits, even though Bass is owned by the city.

Write your legislator.

You should read the thread. The licensee is not one under which 51% is applicable. This is not a legislative issue.

 

[oohrah]

The thread didn't say who was the licensee. I said, IF the beer vendor has a 51% license, it would apply everywhere. I have read of numerous outdoor and indoor situations where the whole venue was off limits.

I agree if the city is just posting a 51% sign, then that is improper/illegal. But who IS selling the beer, and what is their TABC license?

 

[txinvestigator]

The thread didn't say who was the licensee. I said, IF the beer vendor has a 51% license, it would apply everywhere. I have read of numerous outdoor and indoor situations where the whole venue was off limits.

I agree if the city is just posting a 51% sign, then that is improper/illegal. But who IS selling the beer, and what is their TABC license?

Read the thread. It is a temporary license which do not qualify for 51%.