Know The Enemy of Liberty: the National Rifle Association

[breakingcontact]

The NRA panders to its base by making the opposition out to be something it isn't. They aren't evil they are stupid and they are not coming for us.

NRA panders to its base. OK.

The gun grabbers arent evil? Evil? Im not sure. Doesnt really matter. People with power do evil things whether they are "evil" or not.

They arent coming for us? How do you know this? "Mr and Mrs America turn them all in". Was she just joking?

 

[Saltyag2010]

I am a huge gun rights advocate. Personally I dislike the NRA. I think it had a good beginning and a good cause however I think their methodology over the last 20 years is absolutely awful. Very much for the same reason I discount conservatives who watch fox and liberals who watch msnbc. If you have a stance and a position spending all your time listening to someone simply regurgitate your current beliefs is pointless and a huge waist of time. The NRA panders to its base by making the opposition out to be something it isn't. They aren't evil they are stupid and they are not coming for us. They are simply not exposed and therefore nieve to certain things just as gun advocates are nieve to certain problems and concerns on the other side. I would love to see what would happen if the NRA stopped spending tens of millions pushing their weight around Washington and fully backed youth programs Boy Scouts Girl Scouts school marksmanship programs and so on. Stopping scatting middle age men that other Mir aged men are coming for your guns and stop Insiting the foolishness that helps back all the fears and concerns of the left. If we did that we make actually get some where and society wouldn't view every fire arm and every knife as a WMD and instead view them as the tools they are that deserve respect and training but have a place


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I respect your opinions and agree with you on most of what you said. However, the money spent influencing the governments decisions are working on a national level. It is failing at the state level in some states. I think they should continue on k street as much as they can.
I do like the idea that the NRA could train more people at a local level, but couldn't we get together and bring more people into gun and knife safety? It could start with awareness that guns are tools.

 

[Younggun]

I am a huge gun rights advocate. Personally I dislike the NRA. I think it had a good beginning and a good cause however I think their methodology over the last 20 years is absolutely awful

.

So you support the old NRA that was all about bolt action rifles and pump shotguns, but not defensive firearms. Gotcha.

Very much for the same reason I discount conservatives who watch fox and liberals who watch msnbc. If you have a stance and a position spending all your time listening to someone simply regurgitate your current beliefs is pointless and a huge waist of time.

I prefer that they continue to agree with my stance on firearms and I don't mind them saying it, but that doesn't mean we sit around and listen to them repeat themselves. That's not why we joined the NRA. We joined because as gun owners, we are stronger as a united group supporting their organization.

The NRA panders to its base by making the opposition out to be something it isn't. They aren't evil they are stupid and they are not coming for us. They are simply not exposed and therefore nieve to certain things just as gun advocates are nieve to certain problems and concerns on the other side

"Pander to their base", you mean they pander to the people who donate money for them to do what they do? THISE BASTARDS!

Are they coming for out guns? They would if they could. Remember "Mr and Mrs America, turn in your guns"? That statement was made by none other than one of your "not evil and not coming for our guns" liberals. You think she wouldn't have done it if she could? You don't think her or her cronies hate the NRA for getting in the way?

. I would love to see what would happen if the NRA stopped spending tens of millions pushing their weight around Washington

You would love to have seen another AWB pass after sandy hook including magazine capacity limits on anything that managed to escape the ban along with a national firearms registry?

and fully backed youth programs Boy Scouts Girl Scouts school marksmanship programs and so on.

NRA can't force schools or boy/girl scouts to offer any programs, but it does support those that do. Also, have you ever hear if the Eddie Eagle program?

Stopping scatting middle age men that other Mir aged men are coming for your guns and stop Insiting the foolishness that helps back all the fears and concerns of the left.

You think the left would back down if gun owners just say quietly and waited? Seriously? Look what happened with the first AWB. Nobody was jumping up and down. They passed that shit anyways. History says your wrong.

If we did that we make actually get some where and society wouldn't view every fire arm and every knife as a WMD and instead view them as the tools they are that deserve respect and training but have a place


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Society doesn't have that view, a small percentage of outspoken liberal wimps have that view. They just jump up and down and scream a lot and think they are bigger than they are because the MSM love a story and a rich guy spends $50 million trying to buy a grass roots movement that fails miserably.


So, are you saying you support training requirements for firearms ownership?


Look forward to your reply.

 

[TheDan]

I am a huge gun rights advocate. Personally I dislike the NRA. I think it had a good beginning and a good cause however I think their methodology over the last 20 years is absolutely awful.

As already noted in this thread, they were at one point responsible for the "sporting use" bullshit. The NRA was reformed from within... This is a good thing. You have a much better chance at influencing the NRA to successfully lobby for gun rights than you do directly trying to influence your local congressman on any topic.

The NRA panders to its base by making the opposition out to be something it isn't. They aren't evil they are stupid and they are not coming for us. They are simply not exposed and therefore nieve to certain things just as gun advocates are nieve to certain problems and concerns on the other side.

Some are naive. A few are just stupid. The majority want to disarm citizens for the precise reason that the 2A was created in the first place. The security of a free State is dependent on an armed populous. Do some research on the history of gun control in other countries.

"Mr and Mrs America turn them all in". Was she just joking?

Perfect example... When someone says they are coming after you, you should probably pay attention!

 

[Jeffrey]

Except that a large portion of them ARE evil, and Stupid.
Bloomberg
Shannon Watts
Obama
Holder

Need I continue?

 

[JohnnyLoco]

I am a huge gun rights advocate. Personally I dislike the NRA. I think it had a good beginning and a good cause however I think their methodology over the last 20 years is absolutely awful. Very much for the same reason I discount conservatives who watch fox and liberals who watch msnbc. If you have a stance and a position spending all your time listening to someone simply regurgitate your current beliefs is pointless and a huge waist of time. The NRA panders to its base by making the opposition out to be something it isn't. They aren't evil they are stupid and they are not coming for us. They are simply not exposed and therefore nieve to certain things just as gun advocates are nieve to certain problems and concerns on the other side. I would love to see what would happen if the NRA stopped spending tens of millions pushing their weight around Washington and fully backed youth programs Boy Scouts Girl Scouts school marksmanship programs and so on. Stopping scatting middle age men that other Mir aged men are coming for your guns and stop Insiting the foolishness that helps back all the fears and concerns of the left. If we did that we make actually get some where and society wouldn't view every fire arm and every knife as a WMD and instead view them as the tools they are that deserve respect and training but have a place


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You're in denial bud.

Gun grabbers never stop. History has proven this to be an indisputable fact.

An enemy of liberty certainly is evil in my book.

They are not "stupid." About specifics of firearms and weapons, Yes. About wanting to turn the public into defenseless slaves, No. These cunning snakes are far from stupid. Sun Tzu is shaking his head.

They know exactly what they are doing. They could care less what an "assault rifle" is, what a "clip" is. They don't care about self defense and each individuals right of choosing the right weapon for their perceived needs.

Spew your garbage somewhere else.

 

[stdreb27]

I wasn't offended, just didn't want to let it slide by.

I don't know that there is much of a libertarian party when it comes to actual people in office, and there really isn't much of a streamlined libertarian stance for the most part.

I will admit many "libertarians" are only libertarians in one area yet still want people to be controlled in others. These libertarians are commonly referred to as "hipsters".

Anyways, sorry to hijack a thread destined for such epic fail.

Ehhh I'll say it, I can't tell you how many Ron Paulites I've talked to that are just anti-establishment liberals who now view the democrat party as the establishment.

I could go down the list and they've conned themselves issues by issue to support big government ideas, and claiming their small government ideas.

To hear I was on the fence between obama and Ron Paul. Shows a complete lack of comprehension of reality.

I can count on one hand how many Ron Paul guys actually could articulate small government ideology.

Not digging on Paul. Just his looney crowd.

 

[Younggun]

Ehhh I'll say it, I can't tell you how many Ron Paulites I've talked to that are just anti-establishment liberals who now view the democrat party as the establishment.

I could go down the list and they've conned themselves issues by issue to support big government ideas, and claiming their small government ideas.

To hear I was on the fence between obama and Ron Paul. Shows a complete lack of comprehension of reality.

I can count on one hand how many Ron Paul guys actually could articulate small government ideology.

Not digging on Paul. Just his looney crowd.

Exactly my point. Calling them libertarians is like calling most republicans conservative.

Ron Paul IS a libertarian, but many of his supporters probably don't know his stance on more than one issue.

Does that mean I don't want them to vote for someone like Ron? Nope, vote anyways. If they new what he was about they probably wouldn't like him.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Ehhh I'll say it, I can't tell you how many Ron Paulites I've talked to that are just anti-establishment liberals who now view the democrat party as the establishment.

I could go down the list and they've conned themselves issues by issue to support big government ideas, and claiming their small government ideas.

To hear I was on the fence between obama and Ron Paul. Shows a complete lack of comprehension of reality.

I can count on one hand how many Ron Paul guys actually could articulate small government ideology.

Not digging on Paul. Just his looney crowd.

If they're not against us, they must be for us. I don't understand your point.

Many may have flawed reasoning in voting libertarian or for Ron Paul or even Rand, but if that is how they are voting, then good for them.

If they vote the right way and leave me, my family, my guns, and my property the hell alone, they are good in my book, liberal or not.

 

[benenglish]

Not digging on Paul. Just his looney crowd.

I remember being at a party with Ron Paul's staff a few decades ago. After much beer and some odd cigarettes, they confided a big secret. The dollar was about to be co-opted. Within 6 months, all greenbacks would have to be turned in to be replaced by different-sized money that was yellow, purple, and other colors. This was going to happen so that, well, somebody could take over something. They weren't big on details.

It was absolutely bet-the-farm true. They had seen and handled prototypes of the new currency.

This was in the early 1980s.

After that, I decided that peeking under tinfoil hats wasn't as much fun as I thought it might be.

My point? Sometimes people lose perspective.

Following that line of thinking, I believe that most gun control advocates are ignorant of the realities but they mean well. Given that ignorance and a sincere desire to "do something", they don't think critically. They wind up supporting policies that will ultimately have truly evil results.

The high-level authors of those policies actually understand the issues and want the results that would follow if all their policies were enacted. They, yes, are evil.

We need to educate the first group. Take a liberal shooting whenever you can.

We need to shoo...er...ummmm...stop electing folks in the second group.

 

[Captain]

Well the green backs are gone, have you looked at our currency lately. It changed under Bill Clinton.



sent from the Gulf of Mexico

 

[benenglish]

Well the green backs are gone, have you looked at our currency lately. It changed under Bill Clinton.

Yeah, but it only evolved. It wasn't suddenly wiped away in the financial coup they were convinced was about to happen.

 

[Saltyag2010]

To hear I was on the fence between obama and Ron Paul. Shows a complete lack of comprehension of reality.

I can count on one hand how many Ron Paul guys actually could articulate small government ideology.

Not digging on Paul. Just his looney crowd.

I would guess 90% of Americans are somewhere between Ron Paul and Obama.
Ron Paul is libertarian, doctor and veteran (further right then republicans, considered small government extremists) and Obama is a spend happy, gun hating liberal democrat ex-lawyer from Illinois. I doubt anyone with a political identity (conservative vs liberal) could be on the fence between bho and Ron Paul. They are opposites.

I supported Paul in his last run, so did my family and other Aggies I talked to.

As far as a looney crowd- that's just what the msnbc guys say about the tea party. Remember he was supported by the tea partiers? Are some of them crazy time bananas pants? Sure, but who doesn't have supporters like that?

 

[Younggun]

Hell, there are a lot of Obama supporters that are not in line with uber liberal ideology, but they support it because of the fears they have of Big Business republicans shitting on the average guy.

So much misinformation out there. But I know of many O supporters who are now looking forward to the day his term ends. Sadly, I think they still do not trust the Republican Party enough to not vote Dem. course, I don't trust the Republican Party that much either, just for different reasons.

 

[ROGER4314]

"Stopping scatting middle age men that other Mir aged men are coming for your guns and stop Insiting the foolishness that helps back all the fears and concerns of the left."

Sir, you are entitled to your opinion about the NRA but I know that you're wrong. Your Constitutionally guaranteed rights under the Second Amendment would this day (5/9/2014) only be a pleasant memory had it not been for the intervention of the NRA! It's OK that you don't support the NRA in this fight. The rest of us will pick up the slack and carry your sorry butt!

Flash

 

[darrenlobo]

It just seems odd that some guy with 9 posts shows up to a TEXAS GUN FORUM beating the same drum as the liberals.

This is an odd one. Since when do liberals warn against govt power? They love the govt having all kinds of power over us. This libertarian is promoting freedom. As in being free from a powerfully armed govt. Unfortunately, the NRA isn't on the same page. They claim to be for freedom while pushing a big govt agenda of wars, borders, & law enforcement.

 

[darrenlobo]

I came to the same conclusion.

From what we learned about libertarians in 2013, they can be bought. This "libertarian" writing this article has money coming in from somewhere.

Please tell me where the money is because I haven't seen any. Oh wait you just made that up with no proof, didn't you? Do you always post fairy tales like that?

fake libertarian screwed us
Revealed: Obama Campaign Bundler Helping Fund Libertarian in Tight Va. Gubernatorial Race | TheBlaze.com

Now you're getting closer to reality. The Demopublicans use 3rd parties against each other. It cuts both ways. Here in PA:

[h=1]Santorum donors give to Green Party
They helped fund a drive to get Carl Romanelli on the ballot, which some say may hurt Bob Casey Jr.[/h]When Sen. Rick Santorum (R., Pa.) encouraged everyone in state politics to help the Green Party earn a spot on the November ballot, at least one group answered the call: Santorum donors.


Fourteen Santorum supporters gave $40,000 to fund a petition drive that has allowed Carl Romanelli to collect about 100,000 voter signatures to qualify for the Senate race. (snip)
Santorum donors give to Green Party They helped fund a drive to get Carl Romanelli on the ballot, which some say may hurt Bob Casey Jr. - Philly.com

I'd say it's not a matter of phony libertarians but phony liberals & phony conservatives. They don't really have ideologies & principles. All they care about is money & power.

 

[darrenlobo]

OP- aren't you the troll who was going on about "assault weapons" at sandy hook?

No, but thanks for asking. All I did was post a list of weapons used there.

 

[shortround]

This is an odd one. Since when do liberals warn against govt power? They love the govt having all kinds of power over us. This libertarian is promoting freedom. As in being free from a powerfully armed govt. Unfortunately, the NRA isn't on the same page. They claim to be for freedom while pushing a big govt agenda of wars, borders, & law enforcement.

It would be helpful to the discussion if you could support with facts exactly how your claim that the NRA claims "to be for freedom while pushing a big govt agenda of wars, borders, & law enforcement."

Your claim is so preposterous as to have your comments dismissed out of hand and to be uttered in an act of absolute lunacy!

 

[darrenlobo]

It would be helpful to the discussion if you could support with facts exactly how your claim that the NRA claims "to be for freedom while pushing a big govt agenda of wars, borders, & law enforcement."

Your claim is so preposterous as to have your comments dismissed out of hand and to be uttered in an act of absolute lunacy!

I feel like I'm being asked to prove that the sky is blue here.

[h=3]NRA Life of Duty Channel:[/h]"NRA Life of Duty serves and supports individuals who go to work protecting and defending the safety of the American people. This network was made for you – the ones we count on to fight for our freedoms every day. We hope this network becomes a great source of information and a powerful voice for the heroes who live a life of duty, each and every day."

"NRA Life of Duty's newest program dissects three words: "Defending Our America." We want to share what this phrase means—not to politicians or talking heads on the news—but to the people with their boots on the ground."

The whole channel is about glorifying state power in the form of the military & law enforcement. Gone are the days when it was understood that freedom meant freedom from govt power not through freedom through it. That is the point of the article that I started this thread with. The International Libertarian: Know The Enemy of Liberty: the National Rifle Association

If you don't want to listen to me then listen to John Trenchard who informed the Founders:

"If this Army does not enslave us, it is barely because we have a virtuous Prince that will not attempt it; and it is a most miserable thing to have no other Security for our Liberty, than the Will of a Man, though the most just Man living: For that is not a free Government where there is a good Prince (for even the most arbitrary Governments have had sometimes a Relaxation of their Miseries) but where it is so constituted, that no one can be a Tyrant if he would. Cicero says, though a Master does not tyrannize, yet it is a lamentable consideration that it is in his Power to do so; and therefore such a Power is to be trusted to none, which if it does not find a Tyrant, commonly makes one; and if not him, to be sure a Successor."

A SHORT HISTORY OF Standing Armies IN ENGLAND (A Short History of Standing Armies in England - Wikisource, the free online library)