Legalized Pot

[Younggun]

Lol

 

[hellishhorses]

That is not reality. Let a guy out the door be it a bar owner/barkeep or a homeowner who thru a party, and the drunk has a DUI wreck, they can and will come for you. At some point in time you have an individual obligation to not look the other way. The problem with many things is that the action taken impact others sometimes to a greater extent. You kill folks in a DUI wreck but you are not hurt is a good example.

I stopped riding and sold my Harley when my wife told me I could kill someone else due to my riding. (health issue I have) I agreed and sold it, but not after spending 3 years looking for different opinions from doctors, but the answer was always the same.

It sounds a lot like the gun-free zone argument. You can make public roads an alcohol-free zone, but are the criminals breaking those laws paying any attention to them?

Acera's sig used to be: “Oh judge! Your damn laws! The good people don't need them, and the bad people don't obey them.”

Bottom line: there's only one person responsible for you.

 

[Sapper740]

And I remember seeing a documentary on a drug non-treatment program also from, IIRC, Portland. Though they didn't phrase it this way, they simply "wrote off" a bunch of low-level pot smokers. They gave them free housing, food, medical care, cable TV, and just enough money to buy some pot and play video games. There was no attempt at treatment. The people in the program tended to just hang out at the apartment and not get into trouble since they had all they aspired to have and were achieving all they aspired to achieve.

Bottom line: It was staggeringly cheaper to just let them leech off society minimally, directly, and openly than to EITHER prosecute and incarcerate them OR try and mostly fail to help them get off drugs.

It was depressing but it was also a terribly rational solution.

Politically, this approach proved untenable and the program was discontinued.

• Anti-drug folks objected to paying people to smoke pot and be non-productive even though it cost more to investigate, prosecute, and incarcerate them for their crimes.
• Compassionate liberals objected to allowing sick people to remain sick when they could be helped, even though the help was more costly and had a high failure rate.
• The purely rational people are so rare that their views were, in the long run, completely discounted.

I understand your sentiment here Ben, I truly do but human lives aren't numbers on a balance sheet and as long as there are veterans not getting proper care, or Senior Citizens who can't afford their medication anyone suggesting we provide free drugs and lodging to un-motivated people who's lack of motivation was caused by their drug use will never fly...even if it is cost effective which I'm not convinced it is. The maximum prison stay for simple possession is one year Get Smart About Drugs while keeping them in pot is a life-time commitment.

 

[Saltyag2010]

I understand your sentiment here Ben, I truly do but human lives aren't numbers on a balance sheet and as long as there are veterans not getting proper care, or Senior Citizens who can't afford their medication anyone suggesting we provide free drugs and lodging to un-motivated people who's lack of motivation was caused by their drug use will never fly...even if it is cost effective which I'm not convinced it is. The maximum prison stay for simple possession is one year Get Smart About Drugs while keeping them in pot is a life-time commitment.

Almost all senior citizens can pay for their drugs.
Veterans should be tended to at the VA or whatever hospitals they want to go to. The bureaucracy that runs the VA should be checked over by a third party and most of them fired.
As far as unmotivated people who want to use drugs and not do anything productive- can't pay your bills = go to jail and lose everything. Repeat offenders sterilized and in government work programs or Sterile Government Owned Drones who pick up trash and build roads. We don't need them.
Is pot a life time commitment? Sure, if you believe it's addictive and teens who smoke smoke for life. I don't believe it because it's pot not tobacco.

 

[Saltyag2010]

John Wayne on welfare-
I believe in welfare — a welfare work program. I don’t think a fella should be able to sit on his backside and receive welfare. I’d like to know why well-educated idiots keep apologizing for lazy and complaining people who think the world owes them a living. I’d like to know why they make excuses for cowards who spit in the faces of the police and then run behind the judicial sob sisters. I can’t understand these people who carry placards to save the life of some criminal, yet have no thought for the innocent victim.

 

[benenglish]

... as long as there are veterans not getting proper care, or Senior Citizens who can't afford their medication anyone suggesting we provide free drugs and lodging to un-motivated people who's lack of motivation was caused by their drug use will never fly...even if it is cost effective...

Excellent point. I certainly can't argue with that.

The maximum prison stay for simple possession is one year Get Smart About Drugs while keeping them in pot is a life-time commitment.

When it comes to cost-effectiveness, no one really knows. It would take decades of running a program to figure out how many drop out for unknown reasons; how many pull their lives together and leave the program as some did; how many go on to harder drugs and crime that necessitates them being kicked out of the program; etc.

You're quite right that there are better places to spend public money. OTOH, there is always a better place to spend money, depending on who's doing the deciding.

Like I said in another post, I don't know where to draw the line.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Almost all senior citizens can pay for their drugs.
Veterans should be tended to at the VA or whatever hospitals they want to go to. The bureaucracy that runs the VA should be checked over by a third party and most of them fired.
As far as unmotivated people who want to use drugs and not do anything productive- can't pay your bills = go to jail and lose everything. Repeat offenders sterilized and in government work programs or Sterile Government Owned Drones who pick up trash and build roads. We don't need them.
Is pot a life time commitment? Sure, if you believe it's addictive and teens who smoke smoke for life. I don't believe it because it's pot not tobacco.

Addiction is not just based upon nicotine but many other factors. We have addictive personalities, folks addicted to drinking diet coke, chewing their hair and the list goes on as long as your arm.

[h=2]Is marijuana addictive?[/h]Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction; that is, people have difficulty controlling their drug use and cannot stop even though it interferes with many aspects of their lives. It is estimated that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it.10 The number goes up to about 1 in 6 in those who start using young (in their teens) and to 25-50 percent among daily users.11,12 Moreover, a study of over 300 fraternal and identical twin pairs found that the twin who had used marijuana before the age of 17 had elevated rates of other drug use and drug problems later on, compared with their twin who did not use before age 17.13
According to the 2010 NSDUH, marijuana accounted for 4.5 million of the estimated 7.1 million Americans dependent on or abusing illicit drugs.1 In 2009, approximately 18 percent of people aged 12 and older entering drug abuse treatment programs reported marijuana as their primary drug of abuse; 61 percent of persons under 15 reported marijuana as their primary drug of abuse.14
Marijuana addiction is also linked to a withdrawal syndrome similar to that of nicotine withdrawal, which can make it hard to quit. People trying to quit report irritability, sleeping difficulties, craving, and anxiety. They also show increased aggression on psychological tests, peaking approximately 1 week after they last used the drug.

​

Is marijuana addictive? | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)

 

[Younggun]

The nice thing about statistics, is you can make them say whatever you want.

 

[TXARGUY]

The nice thing about statistics, is you can make them say whatever you want.

With 98.999% accuracy

 

[karlac]

When it comes to cost-effectiveness, no one really knows. .... Like I said in another post, I don't know where to draw the line.

We may get a somewhat better idea by studying a country where pot use has been decriminalized for personal use. Granted there are some apples to oranges issues, but the underlying figures can shed some light:

EMCDDA | Situation summary for the Netherlands ? up to date summary of the national drug situation in the Netherlands (Country overviews)

The above makes it easy to bounce back and forth between the statistics for other European countries to do some comparisons.

 

[hellishhorses]

With 98.999% accuracy

83% of statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[Saltyag2010]

Addiction is not just based upon nicotine but many other factors. We have addictive personalities, folks addicted to drinking diet coke, chewing their hair and the list goes on as long as your arm.

Is marijuana addictive?

Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction; that is, people have difficulty controlling their drug use and cannot stop even though it interferes with many aspects of their lives. It is estimated that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it.10 The number goes up to about 1 in 6 in those who start using young (in their teens) and to 25-50 percent among daily users.11,12 Moreover, a study of over 300 fraternal and identical twin pairs found that the twin who had used marijuana before the age of 17 had elevated rates of other drug use and drug problems later on, compared with their twin who did not use before age 17.13
According to the 2010 NSDUH, marijuana accounted for 4.5 million of the estimated 7.1 million Americans dependent on or abusing illicit drugs.1 In 2009, approximately 18 percent of people aged 12 and older entering drug abuse treatment programs reported marijuana as their primary drug of abuse; 61 percent of persons under 15 reported marijuana as their primary drug of abuse.14
Marijuana addiction is also linked to a withdrawal syndrome similar to that of nicotine withdrawal, which can make it hard to quit. People trying to quit report irritability, sleeping difficulties, craving, and anxiety. They also show increased aggression on psychological tests, peaking approximately 1 week after they last used the drug.

Is marijuana addictive? | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)

Thanks bud. I wanted the facts on it.

I still think real statistics and real sources of information are helpful. I don't think there is reason to have it illegal when the prohibition hasn't worked. The black market expanded to meet the supply. If we had a legal vendor the black market would lose its cash. How many people buy beer off the black market?

 

[hellishhorses]

the guys saying need to ban "stuff"are the guys that need a label to tell them to keep their hands away from the mower blades

 

[Mike1234567]

I've read several times that pot is 95 percent of the drug cartel's business. If that's true then legalizing pot (or decriminalizing it) will essentially choke the drug cartels nearly to death. I'm 100 percent for that!!

 

[benenglish]

...folks addicted to drinking diet coke...

You called?

 

[TXARGUY]

the guys saying need to ban "stuff"are the guys that need a label to tell them to keep their hands away from the mower blades

No, we need to ban mower blades.

Because:
What language(s) should said label be printed in?
What colors should they be?
They can't be black lettering on white because that's racist that white gets so much representation.
They can't be black with white lettering because if white sitting on black telling people what to do ain't racist I don't know what is.
What about the color blind?
What about the illiterate?
What a out the libertarians who feel they should be able to make the personal choice whether or not to stick their hand in without a government sign telling them what to/not to do?
Wouldn't it be necessary to post a blade advisor next to each one in case of signage failure and to answer questions?
Shouldn't the blade advisor be armed and driving an MRAP?
Shouldn't the blade advisor be representative of the local population to avoid tensions created by differing pigmentation?
Shouldn't there be a 3 month $300,000,000,000.00 government study on the standardization and reaching effects of such signage performed prior to implementation?


Much easier just to ban mower blades.

 

[Vaquero]

This thread makes me want a hit.

 

[Texas42]

This thread is always 100% entertaining.

 

[Logarius]

My first mistake was posting for the first time on this forum in a pig wrestling match. I vow to not make that mistake again. I will blame it on the meds from my knee surgery and the late hour. Hope everyone makes good choices that do not have a negative impact on the ones they love and those around them. Done with this thread!

 

[jordanmills]

This thread reminds me of an old chemistry joke:


A guy walks into a bar and asks for a glass of H2O.
His buddy says, I'll have a glass of H2O too.....he dies.

alas the poor chemist
he is no more
for what he thought was h20
was h2so4