Lets talk AKM's: 5.45x39 vs 7.62x39

[Jakashh]

I might be buying an AK in a few months after I get some things settled with a speeding ticket I got.

Now I want something that can take more abuse than my AR (My AR has been functioning flawlessly. No jams at all so far, shot about 100 to 200 rounds)

So my options are either 5.45x39 or 7.62x39

I'm leaning more towards 5.45, due to it's greater accuracy compared to the 7.62, though it is understood that the 7.62 may have more stopping power.

Any thoughts or opinions you can share? I'm looking for as much info/opinions/input I can get.

And if not an AK, do you have any other rifle you can suggest to me for around or under $500? I don't want anything in .223 or 5.56

P.S. I don't have any specific needs for this rifle. It's primarily a beater rifle/backup rifle that may be used as a secondary home defense rifle alongside my AR15. I don't plan on investing much into it, and if it's an AK I definitely won't clean it as much just to see how far I can go before it starts jamming. This will primarily be for fun.

Thanks!

 

[Jakashh]

Anyone have any actual experience with these? That price seems reasonable.

Century Arms Cent A.R.M.S. Inc. AK74 545X39 16in. 2 30rd CARI1620X

 

[The Lox]

I recently bought a Bulgy 74 from Century, it came with 3 high cap mags and it ran its first 50 round through it with 0 issues and I can't wait to get it out to the long range this weekend and see how things go. The nice thing about the 5.45 is that the ammo is cheaper than the 7.62. Otherwise I don't think there is huge difference between the two..

 

[nalioth]

Anyone have any actual experience with these? That price seems reasonable.

Century Arms Cent A.R.M.S. Inc. AK74 545X39 16in. 2 30rd CARI1620X

Buying a Century-produced (not Century-imported) gun is always going to be a gamble.

For either caliber, my opinion is that the best deal is going to be to buy a Saiga and convert it yourself. You'll be getting 100% new parts, many milspec and right off the AK production line.

Since you're in Sugarland, you can come and do your own conversion in my shop (I have build parties all the time).

I recently bought a Bulgy 74 from Century, it came with 3 high cap mags and it ran its first 50 round through it with 0 issues and I can't wait to get it out to the long range this weekend and see how things go. The nice thing about the 5.45 is that the ammo is cheaper than the 7.62. Otherwise I don't think there is huge difference between the two..

Really? 46 round magazines? Got pix?

30 and 45 round mags for the AK74 are not "high cap", I'm sorry to say, but are regular ol' mags that were designed for the gun.

. . and the 5.45x39 ain't gonna stay cheap.

 

[The Lox]

Buying a Century-produced (not Century-imported) gun is always going to be a gamble.

For either caliber, my opinion is that the best deal is going to be to buy a Saiga and convert it yourself. You'll be getting 100% new parts, many milspec and right off the AK production line.

Since you're in Sugarland, you can come and do your own conversion in my shop (I have build parties all the time).

Really? 46 round magazines? Got pix?

30 and 45 round mags for the AK74 are not "high cap", I'm sorry to say, but are regular ol' mags that were designed for the gun.

. . and the 5.45x39 ain't gonna stay cheap.

Sorry I am not considering the "original configuration". Most folks would consider a 30rnd mag a high cap mag when speaking in terms of 10rnd vs 30rnd. Sorry if the nomenclature really boils your blood, at least I didn't call them clips...

 

[Jakashh]

Buying a Century-produced (not Century-imported) gun is always going to be a gamble.

For either caliber, my opinion is that the best deal is going to be to buy a Saiga and convert it yourself. You'll be getting 100% new parts, many milspec and right off the AK production line.

I had no complaints with my WASR-10/63, but who knows, there may still be troubled ones out there.

As for converting a Saiga, are they easily found under $500, and how much does it cost to convert one? That sounds like a good idea.

EDIT: Oh wow, this is not too bad of a deal...

http://www.google.com/search?source...19&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=bec7d83322434ea4


Do you think the price may rise significantly in the next few months? Whens your next build party? Will these be able to use standard AK-74 mags? I know some saigas take saiga only mags.

 

[The Lox]

You can pick up Saiga Rifles pretty cheap, I think I gave around $325 for my 7.62 about a year ago, no idea on current prices. I sent my to Wade P to be converted, I think his prices start around $300 for a standard conversion, but I added some other things I wanted done by a professional.

I think you can source the parts together for a conversion for a couple hundred bucks depending on what kind of stock and what kind of parts you want to use. Nalioth seems to be the expert on doing conversions, so I am sure he'll offer up more useful details.

 

[Jakashh]

holy shit. I do not want to pay $300 for a conversion, but then again that does include labor. I'll most likely be converting it myself.

 

[nalioth]

As for converting a Saiga, are they easily found under $500, and how much does it cost to convert one? That sounds like a good idea.

If you do the work yourself, it only costs for materials (butt stock, fire control group and pistol grip and drill bits and such).

Do you think the price may rise significantly in the next few months? Whens your next build party? Will these be able to use standard AK-74 mags? I know some saigas take saiga only mags.

The price on what? Saigas or ammo? The Saiga boat is due any time, according to sources, and as soon as it gets here, the Saiga prices should drop like a rock.

I have build parties all the time - just had one last weekend.

Yes, after a conversion, you'll be able to use milspec AK74 magazines.

 

[Jakashh]

How much (average price) will those materials you mentioned cost me? And you'd obviously help me with the conversion in person, right? I'd need it

So I should probably wait to buy this? because $350 seems like a nice price, but if it will get any lower, I can wait.

I want mine converted to the point where it looks like this (if possible)

but preferrably with wood furniture. Will AK wood furniture fit on a converted Saiga?

 

[nalioth]

How much (average price) will those materials you mentioned cost me? And you'd obviously help me with the conversion in person, right? I'd need it

Those materials will cost as much as you want to spend. You can probably get the whole mess for less than $100 if you're going for "inexpensive". I am always around during build parties ( have to keep an eye on those who have no idea how to work power tools )

So I should probably wait to buy this? because $350 seems like a nice price, but if it will get any lower, I can wait.

I want mine converted to the point where it looks like this (if possible)

[/quote]Looks like what? Is there a gun in that picture?
[quote="Jakashh, post: 255068"]
but preferrably with wood furniture. Will AK wood furniture fit on a converted Saiga?[/QUOTE]A converted Saiga can use as much standard AK furniture as you wish to use. You will have to pay for extra parts to get a Saiga to look like a standard AK.

 

[rifletex91]

Buy an AK74 from atlantic firearms. It is the IAC Interarms AK74. I bought it and has been the best AK I have had so far. It already comes converted how you want it. It is exactly how it looks in that photo with that hot chick. If it is just for fun but don't want that crappy century stuff, and if you aren't looking to put in 750+ for an arsenal, then the IAC AK74 from atlantic is your best bet. This baby even 1 ups the arsenal with a chrome lined muzzle break and real military stock set.
View attachment 7762 View attachment 7763
And I was getting this accuracy out of the box at 50 yards. I think all of them are zeroed at 50 yards. Chrome lined barrel, muzzle break, nice parkerized finish, shoots straight to POA, you don't have to convert it. IMO I think this is as good as you are going to get out of the box without paying for an arsenal.
AK47 Rifle Interarms IAC 74 Poly

 

[rifletex91]

OH and they have that exact one with wood, didn't see your last sentence.
AK74 Rifle Interarms IAC 74 Wood

 

[M. Sage]

As far as 7.62 having better "stopping power", that's up for debate. The 5.45 has some downright evil terminal effects. You can't really compare small very high velocity bullet wounds with wounds left by a more "standard" size bullet moving at high velocity. For what it's worth, the 5.45 starts to yaw at only 3" penetration. It's a really nasty little design.

Spetsnaz never adopted the 74, preferring to stay with 7.62. Not for better stopping power, but for better barrier penetration.

Personally, I'll take more ammo for the same weight (or the same load for less weight) if given a choice. Of course, I had to go build a 7.62 rifle before I knew about 5.45. Ah, well. Live and learn.

I'll tell you right now, the plastic furniture is nice because it shaves the weight down. IMO one of the best setups is the 100-series side-folding stock. A friend had a rifle converted to that (and it got stolen!), and it was the slickest folder I've ever seen.

 

[rifletex91]

Anyone have any actual experience with these? That price seems reasonable.

Century Arms Cent A.R.M.S. Inc. AK74 545X39 16in. 2 30rd CARI1620X

I have had an experience with one of those, it wasn't a good one. Even though it never malfunctioned on me, it came with canted sights and had rust that I couldn't see until I took a pic of it with a camera with the flash. The discovery of rust only with a flash of the camera still puzzles me to this day. Oh, and the finish on it was horrid, it looked like somebody vomited on it. When you buy century, you roll the dice.

 

[drummingchevy]

I've got one of the Century 74's. As mentioned, the sights are terrible and you'll spend some time getting them zeroed properly and after that, the gun isn't very accurate anyway. The finish is cheap and can be scraped off with with a dull fingernail. The gun hasn't malfunctioned in the 1200 rounds it's been through, though.

 

[Jakashh]

I think I'll go with a Saiga conversion. $579 is way more than I want to spend all at once, and I'd rather fool myself into thinking I didnt spend as much on converting a saiga. And thanks for the info, M. Sage. I'm set on 5.45x39. Now for the hardest part: Waiting...

 

[majormadmax]

K-VAR has Saigas for $379...

Rifles & Shotguns from...

Personally, I prefer 7.62; but it's individual preference...I just like something that goes through solid objects better! Watch this and decide...



But here's also the opinion of a Russian captain from the first Chechen war...

I made a "royal mag" by binding two 45-round RPK machinegun clips head-to-toe with an electric tape. This gave me 90 rounds always at the ready. It's a pity though, the calibre is 5.45, not 7.62, like before. The 5.45 bullet has some ricochet and once fired is all over the place. The 7.62 round, on the other hand, goes straight as. There is a legend - during the Vietnam War, American GIs had complained to the gunmakers that their M-16s wounded too many while killing very few (our AK-47 and AKM suffers from the same imperfection). Then, the gunsmakers came right to the trenches, studied the problem and began experimenting on the spot. Here's what they did: they drilled a hole through the bullet's tip and soldered a needle inside the hole. These modifications resulted in shifting of the bullet's centre of gravity and when it hit the target, it reeled on almost all of the target's guts too. Although the rounds' stability suffered greatly and the bullet did produce more ricochets than before, the end result was more enemy fatalities after all.
Soviet Army didn't produce anything original but rather copied the American idea and, during the Afghan Campaign, swapped all 7.62 calibre AKs with the 5.45 ones. Maybe fine for some, but I am personally not ecstatic.

The text was taken from his novel, partially translated here.

Cheers! M2

 

[rifletex91]

I think I'll go with a Saiga conversion. $579 is way more than I want to spend all at once, and I'd rather fool myself into thinking I didnt spend as much on converting a saiga. And thanks for the info, M. Sage. I'm set on 5.45x39. Now for the hardest part: Waiting...

Damn, didn't see that price, it went up since I ordered mine in December. Mine was 549, not much of a difference but meh. Your best bet then is a saiga then convert yourself, that's what I'm going to do next for my first 7.62 ak.

 

[Angered_Kabar]

The spinning through flesh like a buzzsaw thing isn't that accurate. The bullet will try to flip around so the base is going first and it will pretty much stay like that. It might wobble a bit and that's why you see those crazy string of beads type pattern in ballistics gel. If the jacket in this round was copper, I'd bet you'd see some pretty awesome fragmentation.