Lets talk AKM's: 5.45x39 vs 7.62x39

[Jakashh]

How much more acccurate is 5.45?

 

[nalioth]

How much more acccurate is 5.45?

Theoretically, it's flatter shooting.

Realistically, you're not going to see any accuracy difference from an AK in any caliber.

 

[rifletex91]

How much more acccurate is 5.45?

If I really tried, I can get half an inch at 50 yards with irons. But to me it seems that an AK can be more accurate than an AR. Of course if the shooter knows his stuff more than the other guy. I have to disagree with nalioth, the 5.45 is a more accurate round.

 

[nalioth]

If I really tried, I can get half an inch at 50 yards with irons. But to me it seems that an AK can be more accurate than an AR. Of course if the shooter knows his stuff more than the other guy. I have to disagree with nalioth, the 5.45 is a more accurate round.

. . and both your AKs (5.45x39 and 7.62x39) were made with the same quality?

Sure you got the same quality barrel in both?

My statement stands.

Realistically Joe SixPack isn't going to see a difference.

We can discuss theory all day long. . .

 

[Jakashh]

What about an RPK with it's heavier barrel?

 

[Jakashh]

What is it i've heard about saiga's and bolt hold opens?

 

[rifletex91]

Realistically I have shot many aks in 7.62 and 5.45, they all varied in quality and barrels and always had better groupings with the 5.45 aks. That is enough to convince me that the 5.45 aks are more accurate than the 7.62 aks. Maybe I got nothing but crap 7.62s and quality 5.45, but for me, it's the 5.45.

 

[nalioth]

What is it i've heard about saiga's and bolt hold opens?

The "bolt hold open" is a misdesigned sop towards gaining the Saiga more "points" for importation as a "sporting gun".

You see, fine hunting guns have bolt hold open capability, and so the folks at Izhmash weren't happy with just sticking a Monte Carlo stock and a Rube Goldberg trigger set in an AK and calling it "sporting" - they added a "bolt hold open", too (See, Uncle Sam? We're 'sporting').

There are over 60,000,000 AKs out there w/o a BHO, and IMHO, they should be removed upon conversion and the slot welded up.

If you get over this way, I'll show you why (nothing beats a personal demo of suckitude).

 

[The Lox]

Theoretically, it's flatter shooting.

Realistically, you're not going to see any accuracy difference from an AK in any caliber.

According to Gabe Suarez all you have to do to get MOA accuracy out of an AK is use Good Ammo, have a TWS Rail Cover, and use a TA33 ACOG. Oh, and you have to have a $1500 AK to start with. At least that is what I found out this week when I asked how you can make an AK as accurate as an AR, but I asked how you could do it for even money, and my posts got deleted...

 

[M. Sage]

If I really tried, I can get half an inch at 50 yards with irons. But to me it seems that an AK can be more accurate than an AR. Of course if the shooter knows his stuff more than the other guy. I have to disagree with nalioth, the 5.45 is a more accurate round.

The 5.45 might be less sensitive to load variations. I could see that. I've experimented a bit with the AK (7.62) I built, and found that with the slant brake on, the point of impact would change quite a bit if I switched to a different load. With other muzzle devices, like the PWS J-TAC brake, it doesn't change at all. The 74 style brake is a lot more effective and probably more consistent.

BTW, I've test fired more than a few parts Romanian guns (including mine, all 7.62) built in my buddy's garage that were capable of stacking holes at 50 yards from a bench.

What about an RPK with it's heavier barrel?

Main problem is with the big heavy bolt group and the piston system trying to drive it causing flex through the whole gun.

According to Gabe Suarez all you have to do to get MOA accuracy out of an AK is use Good Ammo, have a TWS Rail Cover, and use a TA33 ACOG. Oh, and you have to have a $1500 AK to start with. At least that is what I found out this week when I asked how you can make an AK as accurate as an AR, but I asked how you could do it for even money, and my posts got deleted...

I could see one of the solid receiver rifles being able to do it, but the stamped rifles? Doubt it. I also don't see how the ACOG is going to help accuracy. It can possibly make you a more accurate shooter (mostly because the sights on the AK suck - very hard to get accurate shots out of them), but that's about it.

Personal experience? AKs are usually about 3 MOA rifles.

 

[The Lox]

The 5.45 might be less sensitive to load variations. I could see that. I've experimented a bit with the AK (7.62) I built, and found that with the slant brake on, the point of impact would change quite a bit if I switched to a different load. With other muzzle devices, like the PWS J-TAC brake, it doesn't change at all. The 74 style brake is a lot more effective and probably more consistent.

BTW, I've test fired more than a few parts Romanian guns (including mine, all 7.62) built in my buddy's garage that were capable of stacking holes at 50 yards from a bench.



Main problem is with the big heavy bolt group and the piston system trying to drive it causing flex through the whole gun.



I could see one of the solid receiver rifles being able to do it, but the stamped rifles? Doubt it. I also don't see how the ACOG is going to help accuracy. It can possibly make you a more accurate shooter (mostly because the sights on the AK suck - very hard to get accurate shots out of them), but that's about it.

Personal experience? AKs are usually about 3 MOA rifles.

I would tell you to look at the thread on Warrior Talk, but because Gabe thought I was trying to have an AR v AK battle, which I was not, he deleted all my posts in the thread. That is what you get over there though, he is the dictator, but he's also upfront about it, so I guess it didn't surprise me that much..

 

[nalioth]

What about an RPK with it's heavier barrel?

Main problem is with the big heavy bolt group and the piston system trying to drive it causing flex through the whole gun.

The bolt carrier group (including piston) is the same as is found in an AK. In theory, the heavier barrel should flex less.

The RPK is nothing more than a reinforced AKM, designed for the SAW role in the combloc military.

According to Gabe Suarez all you have to do to get MOA accuracy out of an AK is use Good Ammo, have a TWS Rail Cover, and use a TA33 ACOG. Oh, and you have to have a $1500 AK to start with. At least that is what I found out this week when I asked how you can make an AK as accurate as an AR, but I asked how you could do it for even money, and my posts got deleted...

I could see one of the solid receiver rifles being able to do it, but the stamped rifles? Doubt it. I also don't see how the ACOG is going to help accuracy. It can possibly make you a more accurate shooter (mostly because the sights on the AK suck - very hard to get accurate shots out of them), but that's about it.

I think he was making a joke.

 

[jr urbina]

I would tell you to look at the thread on Warrior Talk, but because Gabe thought I was trying to have an AR v AK battle, which I was not, he deleted all my posts in the thread. That is what you get over there though, he is the dictator, but he's also upfront about it, so I guess it didn't surprise me that much..

I don't think he meant anything personal by it. As far as AK's and ARs, I think the AK is more accurate than given credit for, and the AR is more reliable than given credit for.

 

[M. Sage]

I don't think he meant anything personal by it. As far as AK's and ARs, I think the AK is more accurate than given credit for, and the AR is more reliable than given credit for.

I agree.

 

[ftw13]

buy both,that's what i did and i'm super happy about it. ammo is about the same price for non corrosive,mags are both cheap and you have the best of both worlds. they're both my fav calibers but i like the 5.45 a bit better....like shooting a 22mag.

 

[The Lox]

I don't think he meant anything personal by it. As far as AK's and ARs, I think the AK is more accurate than given credit for, and the AR is more reliable than given credit for.

I know, it just kind of made me smile, I really wasn't trying to start anything. I know very little about the AK platform, so all I have to base my experience on is my AR. But the AK platform is multiplying in my house, I think if I get one more AK the balance of power will be even. Chances are it will just be a WASR just to have one..

I have a pretty sweet converted Saiga that is soon to be on its way back to Dallas from San Marcos, might have it back next week!

 

[ftw13]

AKs are plenty accurate in the right hands,just ask all the guys killed by them....oh wait,ya can't. don't get a WASR for a bit more you can get a much better rifle....try interarms,redjacket or waffen works they have those at atlantic. if you get a wasr get it from henderson defense

 

[nalioth]

AKs are plenty accurate in the right hands,just ask all the guys killed by them....oh wait,ya can't. don't get a WASR for a bit more you can get a much better rifle....try interarms,redjacket or waffen works they have those at atlantic. if you get a wasr get it from henderson defense

For the same price or less, you can get a better rifle - a Saiga that you convert yourself.

 

[ftw13]

i'd suggest getting an arsenal but the guy said he was on a budget

 

[majormadmax]

There are some decent WASRs out there as well, but I wouldn't advocate buying one sight-unseen!

They may be the lower end of the AK spectrum, but I am very happy with the 10/63 I just picked up. Sure, it doesn't compare with my Yugos or my Arsenal; but it's a nice rifle and for those on a limited budget it might just be all they need!

Cheers! M2