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NATO members not paying their share

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  • Ausländer

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    This doesn't include the money that many are not spending to maintain their military effectiveness. For example:



    Officially, the Bundeswehr insists that it is not entirely helpless. Following the Russian attack on Ukraine, the Bundeswehr is now preparing for a possible deployment of the "NATO Response Force," the alliance's rapid reaction force that currently comprises a total of 40,000 soldiers. Germany contributes 13,700 troops to this force.

    But the German military has been dogged by stories of depleted equipment for years. A Bundeswehr report from December found that 77% of Germany's military is operation-ready. It evidently considered that a good result — it being above the 70% target — since the military's leader, General Inspector Eberhard Zorn, made sure to add at the time that the Bundeswehr was "capable of fulfilling its tasks both inside and outside Germany at short notice, flexibly, and together with our allies."

    And complex weapons systems like planes and tanks have proved particularly problematic. During last year's emergency evacuation of Afghanistan, the Bundeswehr was forced to rent freight planes made by, of all companies, the Ukrainian manufacturer Antonov. Germany's NH90 and Tiger combat helicopters, meanwhile, are hampered by long reparation times and a shortage of spare parts, and December's Bundeswehr report admitted that only 40% of them are currently combat-ready.

    Similarly difficult to maintain are Germany's Puma tanks, an enormously expensive (they cost €17.1 million each) and enormously heavy piece of hardware that was already criticized because only crew of a certain height could get inside (soldiers could be no taller than 1.84 meters). This tank, built by German manufacturers Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall, was forced by NATO to undergo several modifications in recent years, and only 65% of the around 350 the Bundeswehr owns are currently combat-ready, the December report said. According to the Bundeswehr website, the German tanks will be ready for NATO's Very High Readiness Task Force by 2023.
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    oldag

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    Germany and England have little left in the way of functional fighting forces. I have read a couple of articles listing the stats and it was shocking. Doubt France is much better.

    Of course, the U.S. is not in good shape on that count either.

    Pushing NATO to increase was a good move by Trump. But I think the invasion of Ukraine is what drove the improvement.

    ---
    Mr. Trump recalled a conversation with an unnamed head of state about how he’d respond if a NATO member that hadn’t spent enough on defense was attacked by Russia. “One of the presidents of a big country stood up and said, ‘Well, sir, if we don’t pay, and we’re attacked by Russia, will you protect us?’” Mr. Trump told the crowd.

    “‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” the former President said he replied. ‘“No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”
    ---

    Push NATO countries to meet their commitment? Sure. But this crap? Spouting off about encouraging one country to invade another is one more example of Trump's loose cannon mouth.

    Stand by for Trumpistas to try and make a case for what a wonderful thing this was in one, two, three...
     

    benenglish

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    But the German military has been dogged by stories of depleted equipment for years.
    For good reason. Until the Ukraine unpleasantness, Germany was officially drawing down their armed forces to, effectively, zero. As a matter of policy, Germany decided there would be no more wars and, therefore, they didn't need an army or air force except for occasional ceremonial window dressing.

    Now they've changed their minds. Predictably, figuring out how to make a 180 and pay for it is proving to be a problem for them.
     

    DoubleDuty

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    Germany and England have little left in the way of functional fighting forces. I have read a couple of articles listing the stats and it was shocking. Doubt France is much better.

    Of course, the U.S. is not in good shape on that count either.

    Pushing NATO to increase was a good move by Trump. But I think the invasion of Ukraine is what drove the improvement.

    ---
    Mr. Trump recalled a conversation with an unnamed head of state about how he’d respond if a NATO member that hadn’t spent enough on defense was attacked by Russia. “One of the presidents of a big country stood up and said, ‘Well, sir, if we don’t pay, and we’re attacked by Russia, will you protect us?’” Mr. Trump told the crowd.

    “‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” the former President said he replied. ‘“No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”
    ---

    Push NATO countries to meet their commitment? Sure. But this crap? Spouting off about encouraging one country to invade another is one more example of Trump's loose cannon mouth.

    Stand by for Trumpistas to try and make a case for what a wonderful thing this was in one, two, three...
    Maybe you should listen to what Marco Rubio said about it. He explained Trumps meaning behind it.
     
    Last edited:

    Havok1

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    Trumps comments are not the issue. The issue is that someone who didn’t take responsibility for their own county’s defense had the nerve to ask Trump to take on that responsibility. Maybe trumps comments were exactly what that individual, and the rest of Europe need to hear to finally get their heads out of their ass. US tax payers do not pay taxes for other counties. US service members do not take an oath to protect other countries. I’m sure if Trump did encourage Russia to do what they want then Vindman would have leaked that info.
     

    TAZ

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    We have spent millions of lives and probably close to multiple trillion dollars defending Europe. 3 times: WW1, WW2 and then the entire Cold War. And that’s just what official.

    Should a head of state say things like Trump supposedly did. Probably not but then look at where namby-pamby dont upset the freaking liberal dolt has gotten us. He is a crass POS, but sometimes things need to be said so folks clearly understand where they stand.


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    Johnny Diamond

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    Germany and England have little left in the way of functional fighting forces. I have read a couple of articles listing the stats and it was shocking. Doubt France is much better.

    Of course, the U.S. is not in good shape on that count either.

    Pushing NATO to increase was a good move by Trump. But I think the invasion of Ukraine is what drove the improvement.

    ---
    Mr. Trump recalled a conversation with an unnamed head of state about how he’d respond if a NATO member that hadn’t spent enough on defense was attacked by Russia. “One of the presidents of a big country stood up and said, ‘Well, sir, if we don’t pay, and we’re attacked by Russia, will you protect us?’” Mr. Trump told the crowd.

    “‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” the former President said he replied. ‘“No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”
    ---

    Push NATO countries to meet their commitment? Sure. But this crap? Spouting off about encouraging one country to invade another is one more example of Trump's loose cannon mouth.

    Stand by for Trumpistas to try and make a case for what a wonderful thing this was in one, two, three...
    You have already proven to be anti-Trump anything else you'd like to declare? Go ahead now is the time to be quite specific.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
     

    oldag

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    You have already proven to be anti-Trump anything else you'd like to declare? Go ahead now is the time to be quite specific.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    Yep. So anti-Trump I have voted for him in the general election twice. And looks like it will be a third time as well.
     

    Bozz10mm

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    Germany and England have little left in the way of functional fighting forces. I have read a couple of articles listing the stats and it was shocking. Doubt France is much better.

    Of course, the U.S. is not in good shape on that count either.

    Pushing NATO to increase was a good move by Trump. But I think the invasion of Ukraine is what drove the improvement.

    ---
    Mr. Trump recalled a conversation with an unnamed head of state about how he’d respond if a NATO member that hadn’t spent enough on defense was attacked by Russia. “One of the presidents of a big country stood up and said, ‘Well, sir, if we don’t pay, and we’re attacked by Russia, will you protect us?’” Mr. Trump told the crowd.

    “‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” the former President said he replied. ‘“No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”
    ---

    Push NATO countries to meet their commitment? Sure. But this crap? Spouting off about encouraging one country to invade another is one more example of Trump's loose cannon mouth.

    Stand by for Trumpistas to try and make a case for what a wonderful thing this was in one, two, three...
    He was speaking figuratively, but the media and democrats saw it, or rather, pushed it as literally. We see this often when the media quotes Trump, many times out of context. Two examples: Drink Bleach to cure Covid and I will be a dictator on/from day one.
     

    oldag

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    He was speaking figuratively, but the media and democrats saw it, or rather, pushed it as literally. We see this often when the media quotes Trump, many times out of context. Two examples: Drink Bleach to cure Covid and I will be a dictator on/from day one.
    Sometimes words matter.

    He possesses the intelligence to have made his point clearly. And then those opposed to him could not have used his words against him.

    Sorry, no excuse. Just more of the loose cannon mouth.
     

    Havok1

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    Sometimes words matter.

    He possesses the intelligence to have made his point clearly. And then those opposed to him could not have used his words against him.

    Sorry, no excuse. Just more of the loose cannon mouth.
    You constantly make a big deal about things that don’t matter while giving a pass to others. It sounds like the words matter less than how the media tells you to feel about them.
     

    oldag

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    You constantly make a big deal about things that don’t matter while giving a pass to others. It sounds like the words matter less than how the media tells you to feel about them.
    And to which others have I given a pass?

    And if you had bothered to read my posts, you would know that I seldom agree with the MSM.
     

    Havok1

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    And to which others have I given a pass?

    And if you had bothered to read my posts, you would know that I seldom agree with the MSM.
    You talk almost daily about Trump having a “loose cannon mouth”. I haven’t seen you say that about any other politicians.
     
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