Obamacare upheld.

[RetArmySgt]

My political views are that each State should run itself and the federal (little 'f') government should be there just to mediate between States and pay the Military. This country should be more of a confederation of States and not a federalist nation.

 

[JColumbus]

I'm to the point now that I pretty much no longer care about the nation. It's dead. Irrevocably, and irretrievably dead and lost. The constitution has been trampled beyond repair, and the fed is so bloated they will never be reigned in. Unless the Tea Party wins a super majority and the White house consecutively for the next several decades, we're toast. I will vote for republicans over democrats for any national election until further notice. State & Local, I will vote for the strongest State's Rights Right Leaning Ultra conservative that I can find. It is my fervent hope that my State survives and continues to prosper. I hope and pray for secession or any other scenario in which our great state tells the Feds in DC to piss off.

236 years. It was a good run.

Would you get fed up with your daughter because her husband beat the shit out of her? No. You'd stand up to him and try to change her life, by getting rid of him(in a peaceful way first). Same for OUR nation. I love this nation and will till I die.

 

[rodbender]

I'm to the point now that I pretty much no longer care about the nation. It's dead. Irrevocably, and irretrievably dead and lost. The constitution has been trampled beyond repair, and the fed is so bloated they will never be reigned in. Unless the Tea Party wins a super majority and the White house consecutively for the next several decades, we're toast. I will vote for republicans over democrats for any national election until further notice. State & Local, I will vote for the strongest State's Rights Right Leaning Ultra conservative that I can find. It is my fervent hope that my State survives and continues to prosper. I hope and pray for secession or any other scenario in which our great state tells the Feds in DC to piss off.

236 years. It was a good run.
69826[/ATTACH]"]

FYI...The Constitution has been dead for decades...the rotting corpse has just begun to stink.

 

[winchster]

FYI...The Constitution has been dead for decades...the rotting corpse has just begun to stink.

Oh I know.

 

[coats04]

 

[TrailDust]

My political views are that each State should run itself and the federal (little 'f') government should be there just to mediate between States and pay the Military. This country should be more of a confederation of States and not a federalist nation.

What you're describing is a "Jeffersonian" form of government, with a weak central government, semi-weak state governments, and with the largest proportion of law coming from the town/city level. I subscribe to that myself, and in a perfect world it's what we'd have in America. I've said this many times....one of the greatest tragedies to befall America was the fact that Jefferson was serving overseas in France during the time the Constitution was being debated and written. If Jefferson had been a part of that process we'd be living in a much different, much freer America than we have today.

 

[oldguy]

quote(No matter what the reason, Roberts did HUGE damage to the Constitution this week. He has set a precedent that the govt can fine/tax you for not buying something it wants to force you to buy. What's more, after listening to a variety of sources it's not clear that any real limit was put on the commerce clause. What's even more, is our country is becoming increasingly lawless to the point where future justices might just ignore precedent and the constitution and rule any damn way they want to for whatever reason. I know at least 4 justices on the court now would do that, if they could get away with it. And soon enough they might just be able to.)quote


I agree, I did have some respect for the court prior to this decision however that is gone,I believe most high school drop outs could have reached a more common sense decision.

Truth is Obamacare was/is not about health care it is about control/greed expanding government and redistribution. In time if allowed to continue only the wealthy will have any health care and you can bet some where in those 2700 pages of garbage is a way to remove guns from your house if you wish to have health care.

We have a basic choice in Nov. radical socialism or freedom and capitalism.

 

[The Lox]

My political views are that each State should run itself and the federal (little 'f') government should be there just to mediate between States and pay the Military. This country should be more of a confederation of States and not a federalist nation.

A group of states tried that once...it didn't work out so well for them...

 

[skinman]

My political views are that each State should run itself and the federal (little 'f') government should be there just to mediate between States and pay the Military. This country should be more of a confederation of States and not a federalist nation.

Unfortunately, we cannot trust the states to not trample on the rights of the minority...the US Constitution does not limit legal and civil rights and liberties to whatever a majority in the state wants. That is the fatal flaw with this "let the states handle it" argument...when the states had control of education, they sucked at it worse than the federal government. Same with voting rights, civil rights, legal rights, etc. The fed has to protect and provide for ALL citizens in ALL states, even if the state does not want it. With your state's only way, California could ignore the 2nd Amendment and outlaw private firearm ownership, Arizona and Texas could institute in a "No Mexicans" policy, the Deep South could bring back their Jim Crow laws...due process would become a joke, states would start fighting over interstate commerce...total anarchy. But, that is what the right is trying to do anyway, now isn't it.

 

[winchster]

A group of states tried that once...it didn't work out so well for them...

You're right, and it failed for several reasons, most of which wouldn't be valid today.

 

[M. Sage]

Unfortunately, we cannot trust the states to not trample on the rights of the minority...the US Constitution does not limit legal and civil rights and liberties to whatever a majority in the state wants. That is the fatal flaw with this "let the states handle it" argument...when the states had control of education, they sucked at it worse than the federal government. Same with voting rights, civil rights, legal rights, etc. The fed has to protect and provide for ALL citizens in ALL states, even if the state does not want it. With your state's only way, California could ignore the 2nd Amendment and outlaw private firearm ownership, Arizona and Texas could institute in a "No Mexicans" policy, the Deep South could bring back their Jim Crow laws...due process would become a joke, states would start fighting over interstate commerce...total anarchy. But, that is what the right is trying to do anyway, now isn't it.

California does ignore the Second Amendment. Every state does.

The Fed.gov has shown itself to be a huge protector of rights this week, hasn't it?

 

[winchster]

Unfortunately, we cannot trust the states to not trample on the rights of the minority...the US Constitution does not limit legal and civil rights and liberties to whatever a majority in the state wants. That is the fatal flaw with this "let the states handle it" argument...when the states had control of education, they sucked at it worse than the federal government. Same with voting rights, civil rights, legal rights, etc. The fed has to protect and provide for ALL citizens in ALL states, even if the state does not want it. With your state's only way, California could ignore the 2nd Amendment and outlaw private firearm ownership, Arizona and Texas could institute in a "No Mexicans" policy, the Deep South could bring back their Jim Crow laws...due process would become a joke, states would start fighting over interstate commerce...total anarchy. But, that is what the right is trying to do anyway, now isn't it.

Show me where the power to control education is given to the federal government. California does ignore the 2A and outlaw most private firearms. State's have constitutions too, we still have a representative republic form of government at the local level. It's not like we would all of the sudden legalize slavery again.
What you are implying is we would completely abandon the fed, if the fed would just stick to its enumerated powers we wouldn't have this problem.

 

[RetArmySgt]

A group of states tried that once...it didn't work out so well for them...

Because the man in the white house created and excersied a power he did not have.

 

[TrailDust]

California does ignore the Second Amendment. Every state does.

The Fed.gov has shown itself to be a huge protector of rights this week, hasn't it?

Absolutely true. Problem was the country started going off the tracks right from it's first days, and kicked into high gear in the early 1800s. For the first time in human history the Founders created a nation, a people, with the highest degree of self-governance ever known. Unfortunately, human nature cannot be changed and the allure and desire for money, power, and control always takes over. IMO--and in a perfect world--I'd like to start all over either here in the U.S. or hypothetically speaking in some other country and use the Constitution as a framework to create an even better document by taking the lessons learned from our own Constitution's shortcomings and doing the very best to rectify them.


The sad truth is human nature is tyranny, and that need to subjugate your fellow man and make him/her do what you want him to do is universal. Good side of it is without government civilization would never have been stable enough to pursue mass agriculture, industrialization, modern medicine, and the quality of life we enjoy today. Down side of it is (whether people want to admit it or not) is that every human being on this earth even today is a slave, or in the case of the United States the equivalent of an indentured servant. You are chattle to the government, a means to an end, and controlling your life to further their needs is all they care about. Government is the elite, but way too many people believe the media version that it's Wall Street fat cats who are the elite. The sheeple take this garbage hook, line, and sinker.

 

[JColumbus]

The sad truth is human nature is tyranny, and that need to subjugate your fellow man and make him/her do what you want him to do is universal.

In truth, if you mean, "a fact or belief that is accepted as true", then sure. Aside from that definition of the word, I have to disagree completely. I, and millions of other believe that tyranny and many other terrible qualities of man, are a product of society/civilization(hardly civilized), and a monetary system. I'm not looking for a debate because ones of this nature don't get far. Just offering a different perspective to such a pessimistic view of our "nature" that is unfounded. Don't take this as a challenge to your intelligence. Sometimes you just feel like you have to object. Ok, sorry guys, carry on...

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

I tried to think of the silver lining, hoping there was a hidden win in the decision. Pretty sure I was deluding myself.

The more I look at it the more I'm convinced that we're just screwed.

I know we aren't supposed to get off into religion, but I'm going to pray daily for a peaceful political resolution to this. 'Cause as of now, I don't see how this doesn't get ugly, violent, over the next couple decades.

 

[XinTX]

In truth, if you mean, "a fact or belief that is accepted as true", then sure. Aside from that definition of the word, I have to disagree completely. I, and millions of other believe that tyranny and many other terrible qualities of man, are a product of society/civilization(hardly civilized), and a monetary system. I'm not looking for a debate because ones of this nature don't get far. Just offering a different perspective to such a pessimistic view of our "nature" that is unfounded. Don't take this as a challenge to your intelligence. Sometimes you just feel like you have to object. Ok, sorry guys, carry on...

History is replete with example after example of man subjugating his fellow man. Look at the Norks (among others) for examples. Ever since Genesis 3 mankind has wanted to play the role of god, desiring to 'rule' his fellow man. Just today they're more sophisticated in their methods.

 

[winchster]

This is from another user on another gun forum, he makes some points I'm not sure of but it sounds hopeful.

Roberts gave Obama a poison pill.


He originally sided with the conservatives and appointed him self to write for the majority which at the time was to reject ObamaCare as unconstitutional.


The solicitor general said it was a tax, so Roberts considered that and agreed it was. He issued his opinion and asked the liberals to side with him and they did. They could have said no, but followed the liberal line and get ObamaCare found constitutional, even if it was called a tax. The Poison Pill.


For the rest of the time until the election the liberals must defend ObamaCare as not a tax. But when you say "its not a tax" enough pretty soon everyone just remembers "tax". They may win or they may loose. But you have to agree he has lit a fire under the conservatives like no other.


The Supreme Court is now adjourned. Their clock is not ticking.


Obama, Pelosi and Reed are all saying right now it is not a tax. It will no doubt be the focus of the election.


When the court resumes session in October, any party to the suit, another justice or Robert's himself can ask for a reconsideration of the ruling.


If Obama wins the elections, Roberts can simply write a new opinion, saying that for example: statements made by the president after the opinion was issued, say it is not a tax, we were mislead and therefore, Obamacare is unconstitutional. He has that power and can do it if he wants.


Or if Romney wins and the Republican's take both houses, he can do nothing and wait for it to be voided. Which is sort of what he said in his opinion.


Anyway this is a view I have not heard before.

Sounds plausible.

 

[JColumbus]

History is replete with example after example of man subjugating his fellow man. Look at the Norks (among others) for examples. Ever since Genesis 3 mankind has wanted to play the role of god, desiring to 'rule' his fellow man. Just today they're more sophisticated in their methods.

Very well stated and I'm not completely against it. The problem is that if you want to go by the bible, you are contradicting your argument. Basically, it wasn't in man's nature to be this way until man was tempted by the serpent. Regardless, I like the theory of society and a monetary system more because it seems to make more sense to me and it offers more hope for the future, religion aside. Sorry for my being somewhat off topic, OP.

 

[M. Sage]

This is from another user on another gun forum, he makes some points I'm not sure of but it sounds hopeful.




Sounds plausible.

No, it doesn't. It sounds like Kool-aid.