Open carry legislation/question

[sti45]

Life, liberty, and the presuit of happiness, (whatever turn your crank.)

 

[Big country]

It would appear to have a lot more cons than pros.

I agree!

I have a strong belief why I think others want it so much, but since I don't really know and don't want to offend, I'll just keep it to myself.

+1

 

[rl69]

Which constitution guarantees us a right to open carry a handgun?

I'm too lazy to read through it again.

the right of the people to keep and bear arms( JMHO)

i don't see it necessary to open carry but i also think you should be able to carry if you want

 

[JKTex]

Life, liberty, and the presuit of happiness, (whatever turn your crank.)

Ok, thanks. Then I guess the Judge was wrong. I "can" walk around with my **** hanging out of my pants if that's part of my "...presuit of happiness".

the right of the people to keep and bear arms( JMHO)

i don't see it necessary to open carry but i also think you should be able to carry if you want

While I agree, it ought to be a choice, I replied because I didn't agree with the comment made. But that's moot.

 

[sti45]

That is between you and the judge. But this is america god bless it and you have a right to disagree, And it does not bother me.

 

[megafatcat]

You have the right to open carry. If you feel the need, load up the old scattergun or rifle, and take a stroll. Much more effective than a handgun anyway.

 

[txinvestigator]

You have the right to open carry. If you feel the need, load up the old scattergun or rifle, and take a stroll. Much more effective than a handgun anyway.

.....

Texas Penal Code
TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY


CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES


Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:


(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

 

[SapperMapper]

The problem with sec. 42.01 is that there are enough whiny people who would be quite upset at the mere sight of a gun carried by other than a LEO. A shrewd lawyer could argue that into "knowingly" along these lines:

"Are you aware that many people find guns distasteful and frightening?"

"Yes"

"Then by open-carrying your pistol, you were aware that some people would be upset by the mere sight of your evil, black assault weapon of mass destruction?"

"Um, yeah, sure"

"GUILTY, YOUR HONOR!"

In my opinion, however, you can choose not to be upset - you can control your emotions. Others' inability to do so at the sight of my old possum-popper is their problem, not mine. I'm in favor of open-carry laws, for the mere fact that an additional choice is open to me when I go out armed.

 

[txinvestigator]

The problem with sec. 42.01 is that there are enough whiny people who would be quite upset at the mere sight of a gun carried by other than a LEO. A shrewd lawyer could argue that into "knowingly" along these lines:

"Are you aware that many people find guns distasteful and frightening?"

"Yes"

"Then by open-carrying your pistol, you were aware that some people would be upset by the mere sight of your evil, black assault weapon of mass destruction?"

"Um, yeah, sure"

"GUILTY, YOUR HONOR!"

In my opinion, however, you can choose not to be upset - you can control your emotions. Others' inability to do so at the sight of my old possum-popper is their problem, not mine. I'm in favor of open-carry laws, for the mere fact that an additional choice is open to me when I go out armed.

Ummmm, Okay.......

 

[mercot]

This discussion is starting to sound just like the comments made regarding concealed carry in Texas.

Why do you need it? Well, no one "needs" it until he needs it.

What are the benefits? It has the same benefits as concealed carry plus a few added ones.
- Like not having to risk arrest and loss of your carry "privileges" because your handgun prints and someone freaked out when they realized you were carrying a weapon.
- The ability to remove your weapon and lay it on the seat of your vehicle in plain sight with easy access, not to mention a more comfortable location than in your pocket or pressing into your back.
- Not having to wear bulky clothing in hot weather to conceal your handgun.
- Not having to dig through your outer clothing if it became necessary to brandish your weapon.
_ As a deterrent to anyone considering accosting you or those you are accompanying.
- Ability to carry a larger and more effective weapon and not have the size determined by your attire or the ability to conceal it.

I get the impression that the open carry opponents are thinking like the anti-gun folks and believe only some boisterous rednecks want to carry openly simply to impress and/or scare folks around them. And maybe the "wild west" shootouts will be the next argument against open carry. It seems it never fails to surface during any discussion regarding carrying handguns.

Just my opinion. I'm sure there are many others.

 

[mercot]

I failed to mention the most obvious argument for open carry that exists.

All uniformed police officers and many plain clothes officers carry open.

Perhaps everyone should consider the reason why.

 

[txinvestigator]

This discussion is starting to sound just like the comments made regarding concealed carry in Texas.

Why do you need it? Well, no one "needs" it until he needs it.

What are the benefits? It has the same benefits as concealed carry plus a few added ones.
- Like not having to risk arrest and loss of your carry "privileges" because your handgun prints and someone freaked out when they realized you were carrying a weapon.

This has been discussed to death. That is not a risk now. Unless you INTENTIONALLY fail to conceal, it is just not an issue.

- The ability to remove your weapon and lay it on the seat of your vehicle in plain sight with easy access, not to mention a more comfortable location than in your pocket or pressing into your back.

Placing your weapon on the seat of your car is dumb. Any slight manuever will send it flying, where it will do you NO good.

I didn't realize the only two carry locations were pocket and small of the back. I have been carrying comnfortably for years at three o'clock. I never knew I could not do that.
-

Not having to wear bulky clothing in hot weather to conceal your handgun.

Another Myth. I carry a full sized 1911 in Texas summers without wearing "bulky clothing.
-

Not having to dig through your outer clothing if it became necessary to brandish your weapon.

On that we agree. It is more difficult to draw from concealed carry; especially with no training.
_

As a deterrent to anyone considering accosting you or those you are accompanying.

There is zero evidence to support that. In fact, some argue that it makes you more of a target as BGs know aheaed of time you need to ne taken out. I don't know that I agree with that either, but there is certainly to deterrent effect that has been proven.
-

Ability to carry a larger and more effective weapon and not have the size determined by your attire or the ability to conceal it.

Bigger than a full sized .45? Like a cannon?




Those are all the same arguments the past petition had, and just are not real arguments. If you want open carry, argue for it based on fact. Not opinion and conjecture.

There are plenty of justifiable reasons to argue.

 

[mercot]

This has been discussed to death. That is not a risk now. Unless you INTENTIONALLY fail to conceal, it is just not an issue.

It may not be an issue for you, but the issue depends on the officer called to the scene and it will be his/her determination whether or not the "print" was intentional.

- Placing your weapon on the seat of your car is dumb. Any slight manuever will send it flying, where it will do you NO good.

That's your opinion, I disagree.

- I didn't realize the only two carry locations were pocket and small of the back. I have been carrying comnfortably for years at three o'clock. I never knew I could not do that.

Again, that's your personal opinion and your carry position preference. Not everyone is like you. And I might add, drawing from a seated position is extremely difficult, especially if one is left handed and carrying in the nine o'clock position.

- Another Myth. I carry a full sized 1911 in Texas summers without wearing "bulky clothing.

I can't imagine wearing a full sized 1911 at three o'clock with a shirt tucked in so you must dress different than I do at all times.

- On that we agree. It is more difficult to draw from concealed carry; especially with no training.

It's difficult to draw from concealed carry regardless of how much training you have gone through, especially under real life stress conditions.

- There is zero evidence to support that. In fact, some argue that it makes you more of a target as BGs know aheaed of time you need to ne taken out. I don't know that I agree with that either, but there is certainly to deterrent effect that has been proven.

It's an obvious conclusion. No one has proven that the death penalty is a deterrent either, yet there are those who still claim it deters at least one person.

- Bigger than a full sized .45? Like a cannon?

Was that second attempt at ridicule meant to be similar to the comment insinuating that those who want to carry openly are just boisterous rednecks. Whatever valid arguments you presented prior to engaging in ridicule are lost when you go there.

- Those are all the same arguments the past petition had, and just are not real arguments. If you want open carry, argue for it based on fact. Not opinion and conjecture.

Well, I haven't read the petition so I can't comment there, but your rebuttal was all opinion and conjecture.

- There are plenty of justifiable reasons to argue.

Yes there are and it appears you are not comfortable with someone openly carrying a weapon. Typically, for someone already carrying openly, it simply means they object to others doing it because they are losing what makes them special. Did you have the same concerns prior to the licensing of individuals to carry concealed? Something tells me you did.

Oh yeah, the facts:
All uniformed police officers carry openly.

Ask yourself why and argue that.

 

[sti45]

One more time why do some people feel others must justify a right, granted buy the 2nd amendment? The right to keep and BARE ARMS, not to Keep and bare concealed, arms. The 2nd is what it is.

 

[mercot]

A slight correction if I may.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't grant us any rights, it guarantees the right to keep and bear arms will not be taken away.

 

[Wedge]

AMEN to that!

 

[mercot]

If open carry was such a problem, why are there only six states in the U.S which ban it.

As I understand the 'facts', the six states which currently ban open carry of handguns are: Texas, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Arkansas, New York and Florida.

Maybe the 44 others just don't have the 'facts', huh?

 

[JKTex]

Mercot just helped his oppositions points.

FYI, a gun laying on the seat really can move, slide, fall off. I'm not sure many people would consider tossing it on the seat a good way to have it readily available. SOB is regarded as one of the worse ways to carry, with very few, if any real justified applications; except in Hollywood. I also carry a full size framed 1911 year round including shorts and t-shirts. I did it just this morning running out to a couple of stores to pick a few things up. I'm more of a 3:30 to 4 o'clock carrier, but it's comfortable and well concealed. As far as printing, your scenario is for the most part unrealistic but it doesn't matter. Do you know Texas Laws regarding "printing"? LEO's rarely have the luxury of doing their job based on their personal opinion.

Drawing a concealed handgun isn't easy. Neither is walking, until you've learned how and practiced. Neither is riding a bike, until you've learned how and practiced. Same goes for drawing a concealed handgun.

txinvestgator for the most part just stated facts but you've turned a lot of it around to try and defend your opinions. And a lot of what you've said is questionable, but that too is just my opinion of course.

BTW, you're new and obviously haven't noticed how much tx and a couple others have offered the forum by way of good factual information and try hard to make people use their head a think, based on law, not on opinion. And never once has he expressed any opposition to civilians carrying.

Everyone has opinions and we don't have to agree with each other but it's easy to get caught up in a battle that goes no where. It seems you are looking for a battle.

 

[JKTex]

If open carry was such a problem, why are there only six states in the U.S which ban it.

As I understand the 'facts', the six states which currently ban open carry of handguns are: Texas, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Arkansas, New York and Florida.

Maybe the 44 others just don't have the 'facts', huh?

I agree with most of what you're saying and for the record, I'm all for open carry in Texas. But most of those other states that allow it, have complex, goofy gun laws to begin with. And I think you'll find open carry isn't practiced much at all. I don't think it would be in Texas either, but our State lawmakers haven't put a lot of effort into making that change. Maybe it's because they know, the net result will me negligible and there's a lot more pressing issues. The biggest impact will be that Texas will move to the list of states that allow open carry....and that's about it.

One thing is for sure, the effort prior to and during this last session was not much of an effort. If it were, it would have been driven by a Texan, not someone from out of state that profits from getting people read what they write.

 

[mercot]

Mercot just helped his oppositions points. FYI, a gun laying on the seat really can move, slide, fall off. I'm not sure many people would consider tossing it on the seat a good way to have it readily available.

Well if "tossing it on the seat" is your interpretation of having a handgun on the seat readily available, I can understand why you would object. That was not my interpretation however.

SOB is regarded as one of the worse ways to carry, with very few, if any real justified applications; except in Hollywood.

I never claimed otherwise and never recommended SOB carry, so I don't know why you brought it up.

I also carry a full size framed 1911 year round including shorts and t-shirts. I did it just this morning running out to a couple of stores to pick a few things up. I'm more of a 3:30 to 4 o'clock carrier, but it's comfortable and well concealed.

And no doubt your t-shirt is oversized and hanging outside your shorts. (ie "bulky") That's not my attire and I should not have to change my lifestyle to please others.

As far as printing, your scenario is for the most part unrealistic but it doesn't matter. Do you know Texas Laws regarding "printing"? LEO's rarely have the luxury of doing their job based on their personal opinion.

If the wording in the state law includes the description of the offense as "intentional", then that is up for interpretation. Meaning of course, the personal opinion of the LEO first and foremost, followed by the opinion of the court system. All very expensive.

Drawing a concealed handgun isn't easy. Neither is walking, until you've learned how and practiced. Neither is riding a bike, until you've learned how and practiced. Same goes for drawing a concealed handgun.

True, if we were discussing walking or riding a bicycle, however what would you consider the easiest and fastest method of drawing a weapon, regardless of your training; from concealment or from open carry?

txinvestgator for the most part just stated facts but you've turned a lot of it around to try and defend your opinions. And a lot of what you've said is questionable, but that too is just my opinion of course.

Well, I saw only personal opinions expressed, much like the response I'm replying to. Perhaps you can point me to the facts he stated? My comments here have nothing to do with personalities. I'm expressing my opinion regarding the open carrying of handguns and the objections others have against it. To me, having to carry concealed makes me feel like a thief in the dark, having to hide all the time.

BTW, you're new and obviously haven't noticed how much tx and a couple others have offered the forum by way of good factual information and try hard to make people use their head a think, based on law, not on opinion. And never once has he expressed any opposition to civilians carrying.

Again, my comments are not directed to personalities, only issues. [edit: Unless others take it there]

Everyone has opinions and we don't have to agree with each other but it's easy to get caught up in a battle that goes no where. It seems you are looking for a battle.

Well, I could come to the same conclusion you came to about your own comments. None of what I said warranted such a response from you where I felt it necessary to defend my actions.

I'm only attempting to address the issue of open carry. What others turn it into is beyond my control.