Open Handgun Carry in Texas? If not, WHY not?

[Younggun]

That is why OC needs a different set of signage than CC.

I have no problems respecting a businesses wishes. By letting the normal little no guns picture most places post apply to OC they can keep visible guns out of their business without affecting the CC crowd, which they probably wouldn't even think about.

 

[MPA1988]

Yes for CHL.

 

[matefrio]

Yes for CHL.

Why restrict it for only for licensed persons in your opinion?

 

[locke_n_load]

Why restrict it for only for licensed persons in your opinion?

+1

Shall not be infringed... with proper licensing...

 

[MPA1988]

Some Texans fear that the only people who would actually carry a handgun openly are those who want to draw attention to themselves, who are potentially confrontational, and simply want to present a tough-guy image. While this claim is probably overblown, YouTube videos are available on the Internet of people in other states intentionally making a show of the fact that their openly carrying a handgun. The same people often appear to be baiting police officers attempting to create an incident that will allow them to later claim police harassment.

Incidents like those described in the preceding paragraph seem to happen more often in states that allow unlicensed open-carry. There is every reason to believe that Texas CHL’s will behave as responsibly if open-carry passes, as they have for the preceding sixteen years. While there may be some such instances, they are likely to be few in number and very infrequent.

 

[matefrio]

Some Texans fear that the only people who would actually carry a handgun openly are those who want to draw attention to themselves, who are potentially confrontational, and simply want to present a tough-guy image. While this claim is probably overblown, YouTube videos are available on the Internet of people in other states intentionally making a show of the fact that their openly carrying a handgun. The same people often appear to be baiting police officers attempting to create an incident that will allow them to later claim police harassment.

Incidents like those described in the preceding paragraph seem to happen more often in states that allow unlicensed open-carry. There is every reason to believe that Texas CHL’s will behave as responsibly if open-carry passes, as they have for the preceding sixteen years. While there may be some such instances, they are likely to be few in number and very infrequent.

So only the licensed should have their full 2nd Amendment rights?

Here in Wisconsin they've had open carry of handguns and rifles for a long long time. Concealed carry shall issue licenses here for only 2 years.

Unlicensed open carry is still an option although not really anyone here does it.

Not really many issues.

Shall the actions of the few, even if embarrassing, limit the freedoms of many?

 

[MPA1988]

So only the licensed should have their full 2nd Amendment rights?

Here in Wisconsin they've had open carry of handguns and rifles for a long long time. Concealed carry shall issue licenses here for only 2 years.

Unlicensed open carry is still an option although not really anyone here does it.

Not really many issues.

Shall the actions of the few, even if embarrassing, limit the freedoms of many?

Forty-four States currently allow open-carry but while this may be technically correct, it is somewhat misleading. In many states where there is no law prohibiting open-carry, it simply is not done. Often this results in law enforcement officers receiving so-called “man with a gun” calls forcing them to interact with citizens openly carrying handguns. Sometimes this interaction is benign, sometimes it is not.

Often, what is technically legal is not actually done. For example, it is technically legal to carry a long gun (rifle or shotgun) virtually everywhere in Texas. However, if one were to throw their AR-15 over their shoulder and walk down Main Street in downtown Houston, Houston Police officers will make sure the experience was unpleasant.

 

[MPA1988]

The bottom line is this; there is no United States Supreme Court decision recognizing a constitutional right to openly carry a handgun, either with or without a license. There is a split of opinions in the courts of appeal in the federal system, with at least one recognizing that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution does protect a right to carry a concealed handgun with a license. There are other federal appellate courts that have held the opposite.

Time for bed. Good night. Keep your powder dry.

 

[matefrio]

Forty-four States currently allow open-carry but while this may be technically correct, it is somewhat misleading. In many states where there is no law prohibiting open-carry, it simply is not done. Often this results in law enforcement officers receiving so-called “man with a gun” calls forcing them to interact with citizens openly carrying handguns. Sometimes this interaction is benign, sometimes it is not.

Often, what is technically legal is not actually done. For example, it is technically legal to carry a long gun (rifle or shotgun) virtually everywhere in Texas. However, if one were to throw their AR-15 over their shoulder and walk down Main Street in downtown Houston, Houston Police officers will make sure the experience was unpleasant.

At what point though is licensing a good thing though? TX doesn't license open carry of rifles and with few exceptions it's gone well other than "embarrassing" or "inconvenient" acts " according to "Some Texans".

Where is the connection made from something that is a right that a few have made "embarrassing" or "inconvenient", according to "others", turned into an act that should be licensed in your opinion?

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

Okay, you guys. This topic should get the blood flowing. I recognize that there are many CHL instuctors on TGT who may feel
threatened by OC, since unlicensed OC would render the CHL 'slightly' unnecessary. After all, Why would someone get a license
when they can OC without any 'permission' from the State?
Ihave been a fan of open carry ever since I visited a few states that facilitate OC in their said state. During my visits, It was pretty comforting to know that folks are very comfortable with seeing guys with guns.

This is my main question. Why are Texas' anti-OC laws worse than even the worst Gun Rights' States?

Consider these comparisons between Texas and New Jersey, for example.
These are taken from wwwopencarry.org.

TEXAS
Summary
"Texas is not a traditional open carry state. They also do not allow open carry, or even printing, by those who have a concealed carry permit."

Now, consider NEW JERSEY

Summary
"New Jersey is not a traditional open carry state. However, should you be wealthy or connected enough to get one of the rare New Jersey handgun carry permits, New Jersey law makes no distinction between open and concealed carry. However, the status of the state’s preemption law would make this a dangerous proposition. They are amongst the top 5 rights restricted states in the union."


Now, this anti-gun, anti-liberty State will at least recognize a permit for EITHER OC or concealed carry.

Not strong enough for ya?
Next door neighbor, Pennsylvania.
Summary
"Pennsylvania is a traditional open carry state. There are 2 issues that prevent it from being a “Gold Star” open carry state. First, you must have a permit to open carry in the city of Philadelphia and second, you must have a permit to open carry in a vehicle. However, PA recognizes the permits of all 50 states for open/concealed carry in vehicles."

A premier state in the Northeast, and they are a traditional OC State? What gives here, guys?

Why is Texas more preoccupied with 'hiding' the gun, rather than bringing the general public in Texas up to the level of seeing guns in public?
After all, we are known as being the Lone Star State!

"Anthropologist Charles Springwood defined it well when he said that Open Carriers are trying to “naturalize the presence of guns, which means that guns become ordinary, omnipresent, and expected. Over time, the gun becomes a symbol of ordinary personhood.”

Even if you disagree, my hope is that you will eventually agree with these observations.
Come on, ya'll. Texas is a GUN state, allegedly, so let's be better than the rest!!

A law saying you are a criminal for not hiding your firearm is unconstitutional to say the least. And if you ask me, a "permitting" system is unconstitutional as well. Requiring a permit to bear arms means the state sees it as a privilege, rather than a right. Even the TX version of the 2nd Amendment is flawed in that respect and could use some serious rewording in my opinion.

Although I do think if people are going to carry a gun on their person they need to know the laws inside and out, which (for most people) can only be accomplished in a CHL class. But I don't think we owe the State of Texas any $$$ to get "permission" to exercise a fundamental right. Honestly I'd have no problem if the whole permitting system were done away with completely.

In fact I also believe that if a convicted felon has served his/her time for a non violent crime, there is no reason they should be denied their gun rights for the rest of their life. That's another issue, the definition of the word "felon" needs to be seriously re-evaluated.

 

[London]

Aside from your many incorrect statements, MPA1988, your argument essentially boils down to "We shouldn't let people exercise their Constitutional rights because corrupt police will harass some of them," correct?

What other right do you support restricting in order to protect us from corrupt cops? What other victimless activities should be made illegal? How many laws will it take to make what is now considered corrupt police activity normal in the future? BTW I'm asking YOU this, not the SCOTUS.

 

[Renegade]

FHowever, if one were to throw their AR-15 over their shoulder and walk down Main Street in downtown Houston, Houston Police officers will make sure the experience was unpleasant.

Oh Really?

So when the New Black Panthers Open Carried Machine guns in Houston right outside the Republican Convention, the police stopped traffic for them to cross the street. yeah real unpleasant.

Houston New Black Panther Party Will Return As Poll Watchers in 2010 - YouTube

 

[Younggun]

Lol

1:"Police are harassing those people for no reason"


2: "That's not good. Better make what they're doing illegal so there will be a reason to harass them"

 

[MPA1988]

Aside from your many incorrect statements, MPA1988, your argument essentially boils down to "We shouldn't let people exercise their Constitutional rights because corrupt police will harass some of them," correct?

What other right do you support restricting in order to protect us from corrupt cops? What other victimless activities should be made illegal? How many laws will it take to make what is now considered corrupt police activity normal in the future? BTW I'm asking YOU this, not the SCOTUS.

Incorrect statements? Ha! I explained my position clearly. Your post contributed nothing of substance as a response to my position. Try again.

 

[MPA1988]

Renegade, try slinging a rifle over your shoulder and walk down main st. and see what happens to you.

 

[Renegade]

Renegade, try slinging a rifle over your shoulder and walk down main st. and see what happens to you.

Like the Panthers did?

Been there, done that, nothing happens. Keep peddling your FUD.

 

[MPA1988]

Been there, done that, nothing happens. Keep peddling your FUD.

Lol...sure you.did

 

[Younggun]

MPA, you have come on to this forum and presumed to be more knowledgable than every other long standing and vetted member of has called you on your nonsense.

You claim open carry should not be legal because every so often there is a news story about an idiot who want to make a scene if a cop asks how he's doing and what he's up to when he has a rifle.

Many people on this forum do a lot if traveling with their guns in cars, planes, trains, and even on foot. You ask someone to do something and when you don't get the answer you want you accuse them of lying.

OC is legal and happening in many states and it hasn't caused the world to end. In fact, life has continued as normal. Your arguments are no different than those posed against concealed carry and just as baseless.

 

[Renegade]

Lol...sure you.did

Dude whether you believe I did it or not does not matter; there is video of others doing it, and nothing happens. So your claims are FOS.

How about these guys at the Alamo? Nothing happened to them either. Guess your theory is falling apart.

 

[MPA1988]

MPA, you have come on to this forum and presumed to be more knowledgable than every other long standing and vetted member of has called you on your nonsense.

You claim open carry should not be legal because every so often there is a news story about an idiot who want to make a scene if a cop asks how he's doing and what he's up to when he has a rifle.

Many people on this forum do a lot if traveling with their guns in cars, planes, trains, and even on foot. You ask someone to do something and when you don't get the answer you want you accuse them of lying.

OC is legal and happening in many states and it hasn't caused the world to end. In fact, life has continued as normal. Your arguments are no different than those posed against concealed carry and just as baseless.

My arguments are sound. You may disagree with my position. So be it.