Optics and lights on your carry gun

[SQLGeek]

I do want to try out an RDS on one of my pistols but I am not there yet. I could definitely see carrying a gun with one.

I do have a TLR-1 on my home gun. There is something to be said for positively identifying what you're shooting.

While you are turning on all that fancy chit I just shot you 6 times.

The RDS is already on...the light flicks on with a finger.

 

[SQLGeek]

View attachment 197460

Oh the triggerings this will incite.... Technology scary.

 

[Jon Payne]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pistol Pete]

G19 at home has a streamlight on it but I couldnt imagine carrying everyday with a light

Throw a red dot on it in addition to the flash light. Still gimmicks to me on a carry gun. My 642 barely fits in my pocket as it is.

 

[Dad_Roman]

Oh the triggerings this will incite.... Technology scary.

Thats nothin. You should shoot it. Wow!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dead Roman]

While you are turning on all that fancy chit I just shot you 6 times.

Its always on. Nothing to touch.

 

[zackmars]

While you are turning on all that fancy chit I just shot you 6 times.

Red dots are always on, and wmls are for the times you are not sure of the identity of what you are potentially about to shoot, and can be activated in under a second

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it's not a useful addition to a gun

 

[CyberWolf]

Figured I'd share my .02, as I've been working through some similar choices...

For background, usually been very simple with general/daily carry for a long time - (G19/43 fully stock except for Trijicon NS). No light on ccw, mainly due to lack of a good comfortable IWB light-bearing holster and not wanting to carry outside of condition 1 or IWB without a trigger guard...

IMHO, visible/non-IR lasers are definately gimmicky on a regular pistol full time (though they make a great training aid, and can serve a limited purpose on an AR pistol if momentary-on is supported), so those are out...

That said...as far as light usage...

...generally requires the firearm to be pointed at a target to illuminate it...

...when the Illuminator operation is controlled by the non-firing hand, but that takes a lot of discipline for folks who don’t practice with those tactics.

A weapon light is not a flashlight, and is not to be used as such...

^^^can't understate how important these points are, and both are spot-on IMO (though may seem contradictory at first glance).

WMLs - (or any simultaneous weapon/light-source manipulation for that matter) require a different mindset entirely than a flashlight, including both manual of arms and engagement tactics, and regardless of light type, require a good amount of training/practice to engage properly.

A great example of some differences would be the fact that my "pocket" flashlights typically have a UI with a few modes (e.g. variable lumen, etc), while my WML's go right to "shit ton of lumens" out of the gate. Not only do I not want to muzzle-sweep everywhere I look (unless actively engaged, then I damn sure do), but I don't want to blind myself with wash, nor do I want to plan on unleashing the Sun and accidentally throw-down with ~5-10 lumens (goes to engagement tactics).

I see the discipline as really a matter of simultaneous coordination of the weapon, light control, and body mechanics associated with dynamic movement, and believe this gives an advantage far beyond anything available with ambient lighting.

To me, the WML is important for target identification (don't want to fire indiscriminately in low-light and end-up with a taxpayer-funded vacation), but it also functions as an extention of the weapon itself - e.g. momentary application of 800-2000 lumens (highly focused; temporarily blind the shit out of anyone looking directly) followed by immediate lateral movement and engagement/retreat, depending on the situation.

Back on topic - for EDC, I'm currently flipping between the Olight PL-Mini and Surefire X300U-A, trying to decide which I prefer...

Have had both lights for a while, they've each got pros and cons...

The PL-Mini is a fantastic light, it's small & light affordably priced, has a good amount of lumens, and a really nice beam-focus/dispersion mix with a reasonable Throw, and simplicity of charging is awesome (just plug it in at night/magnetic charger).

Smaller downside is lack of lumens (more below), but that's also an asset in some use-cases...This light is perfect for indoors, small rooms, etc., and won't impair the shooter with Wash.

Larger downside is the UI and the way it combines momentary/constant on - to use momentary-mode, you need about 1-2s of beam engagement, and a quick-press enables constant-on. This is a limiting factor, and can be dangerous with potential for unintentional prolonged light discharge.

The SureFire also has both modes, but the UI is different and modes are seperate functions. Much brighter (makes the olight look more like a full moon vs the Sun), and has way more throw, but the Wash can be troublesome in confined spaces.

Much bigger obviously, and requires batteries, but generally superior and more effective in my opinion, particularly for use in unknown conditions/environs of daily carry.

The cost of a good dot, and getting a slide directly milled to accept it can almost triple the cost of a carry gun, which most people aren't going to be willing to spend

^yeah, this. Tried using a red dot a few times on pistols with top-rails, but never went in for it. Figured it was a matter of optic size/height, and looking at cost of micro dots plus slide mods, and just wasn't worth it, particlarly when you can purchase at blue-label costs.

Fast forward, recently picked up an RMR, and decided rather than butcher a factory gun, was easier and better to just get a new slide. Well, enter the P80 discussions and decided to finish a frame that's been collecting dust for a while...

Currently test driving this holster from Armordillo Concealment, which is "light specific" for any glock-ish weapon wearing an x300u-a.

With the dot, so far I'm really digging it, but it's taking a bit of getting used to. At the moment I'm a tiny bit slower with the dot because aiming/firing is typically not a conscious effort at close-to-intermediate range, but expect that will be rectified in short order. For longer range engagement, I've already decided that this thing is the shit.

I'm still function testing and breaking this one in, but have high expectations overall and is very wearable (though can still a bit uncomfortable when sitting if poor posture). For reference, I've been able to fully conceal both that and another G19.5 at the same time under a t-shirt without printing...

Hope this helps some folks...

 

[Whistler]

Wow you really put a lot of thought into that! And here I thought I was doing good with my sad little "it was dark so I got a light".

Thanks for that, plenty of things to ponder.

 

[avvidclif]

I do want to try out an RDS on one of my pistols but I am not there yet. I could definitely see carrying a gun with one.

I do have a TLR-1 on my home gun. There is something to be said for positively identifying what you're shooting.



The RDS is already on...the light flicks on with a finger.

While your finger is flicking the whatever mine is flicking the trigger.

 

[CyberWolf]

Wow you really put a lot of thought into that! And here I thought I was doing good with my sad little "it was dark so I got a light".

Thanks for that, plenty of things to ponder.

Thanks, but not really too much effort beyond the time it took to type

Just wanted to articulate and share some of my perspectives & experience on a topic-of-interest in the hopes it might be helpful to others going through a similar evolution.

I have no doubt that some of our members have far more experience in this area, and can hopefully fill in anything relevant I may have missed...

 

[SQLGeek]

While your finger is flicking the whatever mine is flicking the trigger.

Yes, because in a situation where I should be shooting I will be instead shining my weapon light at the threat. That makes perfect sense.

The WML is a tool to be used as needed to aid in target identification. Nothing more.

 

[V-Tach]

Interesting discussion.........

My carry guns have iron sights only.....home defense rifle and shotgun have lights.....hand held tac lights next to the bed, and in the vehicle if necessary....

 

[zackmars]

While your finger is flicking the whatever mine is flicking the trigger.

Thats not how this works

 

[MTA]

Throw a red dot on it in addition to the flash light. Still gimmicks to me on a carry gun. My 642 barely fits in my pocket as it is.

Yea I pocket carry / iwb carry my p938. Ill keep the light on my g19 but I only wear it around my property

 

[MTA]

Figured I'd share my .02, as I've been working through some similar choices...

For background, usually been very simple with general/daily carry for a long time - (G19/43 fully stock except for Trijicon NS). No light on ccw, mainly due to lack of a good comfortable IWB light-bearing holster and not wanting to carry outside of condition 1 or IWB without a trigger guard...

IMHO, visible/non-IR lasers are definately gimmicky on a regular pistol full time (though they make a great training aid, and can serve a limited purpose on an AR pistol if momentary-on is supported), so those are out...

That said...as far as light usage...





^^^can't understate how important these points are, and both are spot-on IMO (though may seem contradictory at first glance).

WMLs - (or any simultaneous weapon/light-source manipulation for that matter) require a different mindset entirely than a flashlight, including both manual of arms and engagement tactics, and regardless of light type, require a good amount of training/practice to engage properly.

A great example of some differences would be the fact that my "pocket" flashlights typically have a UI with a few modes (e.g. variable lumen, etc), while my WML's go right to "shit ton of lumens" out of the gate. Not only do I not want to muzzle-sweep everywhere I look (unless actively engaged, then I damn sure do), but I don't want to blind myself with wash, nor do I want to plan on unleashing the Sun and accidentally throw-down with ~5-10 lumens (goes to engagement tactics).

I see the discipline as really a matter of simultaneous coordination of the weapon, light control, and body mechanics associated with dynamic movement, and believe this gives an advantage far beyond anything available with ambient lighting.

To me, the WML is important for target identification (don't want to fire indiscriminately in low-light and end-up with a taxpayer-funded vacation), but it also functions as an extention of the weapon itself - e.g. momentary application of 800-2000 lumens (highly focused; temporarily blind the shit out of anyone looking directly) followed by immediate lateral movement and engagement/retreat, depending on the situation.

Back on topic - for EDC, I'm currently flipping between the Olight PL-Mini and Surefire X300U-A, trying to decide which I prefer...

Have had both lights for a while, they've each got pros and cons...

The PL-Mini is a fantastic light, it's small & light affordably priced, has a good amount of lumens, and a really nice beam-focus/dispersion mix with a reasonable Throw, and simplicity of charging is awesome (just plug it in at night/magnetic charger).

Smaller downside is lack of lumens (more below), but that's also an asset in some use-cases...This light is perfect for indoors, small rooms, etc., and won't impair the shooter with Wash.

Larger downside is the UI and the way it combines momentary/constant on - to use momentary-mode, you need about 1-2s of beam engagement, and a quick-press enables constant-on. This is a limiting factor, and can be dangerous with potential for unintentional prolonged light discharge.

The SureFire also has both modes, but the UI is different and modes are seperate functions. Much brighter (makes the olight look more like a full moon vs the Sun), and has way more throw, but the Wash can be troublesome in confined spaces.

Much bigger obviously, and requires batteries, but generally superior and more effective in my opinion, particularly for use in unknown conditions/environs of daily carry.




^yeah, this. Tried using a red dot a few times on pistols with top-rails, but never went in for it. Figured it was a matter of optic size/height, and looking at cost of micro dots plus slide mods, and just wasn't worth it, particlarly when you can purchase at blue-label costs.

Fast forward, recently picked up an RMR, and decided rather than butcher a factory gun, was easier and better to just get a new slide. Well, enter the P80 discussions and decided to finish a frame that's been collecting dust for a while...

View attachment 197479
View attachment 197480

Currently test driving this holster from Armordillo Concealment, which is "light specific" for any glock-ish weapon wearing an x300u-a.

With the dot, so far I'm really digging it, but it's taking a bit of getting used to. At the moment I'm a tiny bit slower with the dot because aiming/firing is typically not a conscious effort at close-to-intermediate range, but expect that will be rectified in short order. For longer range engagement, I've already decided that this thing is the shit.

I'm still function testing and breaking this one in, but have high expectations overall and is very wearable (though can still a bit uncomfortable when sitting if poor posture). For reference, I've been able to fully conceal both that and another G19.5 at the same time under a t-shirt without printing...

Hope this helps some folks...

Geez whats the cliff notes version of this?

 

[CyberWolf]

Geez whats the cliff notes version of this?

1. WMLs are awesome on pistols
--find a good holster
--train with light
--more is better, but too much can be counterproductive

2. Limited but very positive experience so far with good mRDS on handgun
--not cheap
--requires practice
--chose to build vs. slide mods

How's that?

 

[Whistler]

Y'all just do not get my sense of humor or it can't be expressed in text. I do not know but that's okay, perfectly fine giggling to myself.

 

[MTA]

1. WMLs are awesome on pistols
--find a good holster
--train with light
--more is better, but too much can be counterproductive

2. Limited but very positive experience so far with good mRDS on handgun
--not cheap
--requires practice
--chose to build vs. slide mods

How's that?

Thats better lol thank you

 

[TexasRedneck]

Bottom line - not one mode fits all. That's why I always try to identify my choices vs "hard facts". 99% of the things we do are because of choices - and what works for one won't always work for another - and I'm good w/that.